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this post/thesis/thought came to my mind because thinking about some of the stuff I and fallenangel did talk about during our last 'pager session':

it does look like, as if very critical and sensitive posts/topics are rated down very quickly, and 'nicer' ones, talking NOT about topic like (good) sex, doing drugs, etc. will be rated much better ... ?

i sadly notice this behaviour more and more, getting me being very doubtful if the MAIN theme of NAO is still on all your minds:

Far from the maddening crowds, a place to kick back and lead an intelligent discussion in peace. We respectfully ask the braindeads to stay outside.

especially this thoughts about sex are rated down like hell, as if sex was something totally perverted and abusive someone should never-ever mention, nor even think of, before marriage!

maybe you should recapitulize, that there are several very open minded person onward this forum system, who just cant understand this ... very intolerant, closed mindedness.

including me.

and about closed mindedness ...

We respectfully ask the braindeads to stay outside.

... its the same as the braindeads are. closed minded. narrowed down sight of beign.

at least, thats how i interprete the main theme/description of NetAlive.Org.

so, well, whats so bad about someone who has experiences in doing drugs and talking about that? or suicide? or dead?

are you all so closed minded?

i doubt.

but i cant stand this anymore - either speak up, or be quiet for the rest of your (obviously lonely) days!

thanks for your patience,
cu all, w0lf.

Metal has no laws. Metal is the law.

it does look like, as if very critical and sensitive posts/topics are rated down very quickly, and 'nicer' ones, talking NOT about topic like (good) sex, doing drugs, etc. will be rated much better ... ?

Could you cite some examples? Posts aren't judged by topic alone.

'Yeah, That's what Jesus would do. Jesus would bomb Afghanistan. Yeah.' - snowlion

This post was deleted by request of the author.

"you're mighty brave in cyber-space, flame boy!"

@fallenangel: this is a very good example.

@all:

i, for my part, have several thoughts wandering throu my mind, eg. some very harsh thesis about 'Mr. America' aka Brush, as null calls him. to indicate this a bit more, its going about the behaviour of this 'president' of the United States and how it looks like to me compared to history.

i'm even thinking about making some evil and mighty cartoon strip out of it.

but i am AFRAID of NAO users being not that mature enough to understand what i mean and rate it down till Luzifer shows up and complains!

maybe its thanks to several members, who have left NAO .. i dont know.

anyway, there are several things that look like as if my thesis about 'NAO not being mature enough' seems to be right - just take my _very personal_, emotional lyrica i posted in my so-called 'journal' - they all got rated down as mediocre.
its not the mediocre, 'was mich ankotzt' (whats making me burn of anger), but that it got _rated_ anyway.

some examples:
- post # 7976 (love poem in german)
- post # 7149 - once again, some lyrica of mine
- post # 7148 - whonder why, its some lyrica of mine, still in german
- post # 7147 - ...
- post # 7146 - hm, this is not in german, but it looks like as if either some two people dont WANT ME posting lyrica or there really are too much 'brainless' in there

this is: i give/show you, the audience of NAO my innerst thoughts, my innerst feelings ... and you dont have anything better to do as to rate 'em. and then, they're just mediocre (they're not anymore, but well...).
no reply, no suggestions, but just a simple smack in the face!

so what does that show me?
the only platform i thought it would fit in, althou' it might get critized - what i really would enjoy, at no matter - is NOT MATURE ENOUGH.

and that goes on:
(just see like THIS topic is already just 'mediocre' - you guys dont seem to see the clining urge in it ... god... WAKE UP!)
talking about sex, making JOKES about sex - seems to hit the point of several very-closed minded individuals. i dont blaime anyone to have a very ... sensitive ... way of talking about sex - nah, ok, thats a lie: i cant stand anyone who is too closed-minded, prude and 'ohmigoditsextheevilword'ish.

at least,
SPEAK UP!

i like to share some of my personality and the best i get is getting rated, get bad comments if i ever get ANY!

lets have some examples:
- post # 7708: a sexual joke (i didnt think you were THAT closed-minded!)
- post # 9160: a sexual side note of fallenangel (after this counts somewhat for her, too, i do include it)
- another one of fallenangel i found while crawling throu NAO: post # 9188
- etc.

there were several others, which just let me fling like: O_o Oooh-aaaah-uuuuh! *shudder* 'are they all so biased and closed minded?!?' whhhaaaa!

thats to it.
but:

cu, w0lf.

Metal has no laws. Metal is the law.

This post was edited by oxygenius on Apr 09, 2003.

Not meaning to offend anyone, and (IIRC) not having rated most of the posts you mentioned because I couldn't 'identify' with them...
- maybe the people who rated these posts 'mediocre' didn't do it because they were shocked by the content, but because they thought the content was mediocre? Not wanting to claim that they are, but hey, tastes differ. And if they think something is mediocre they're very well allowed to express their opinion. Plus maybe (maybe) there were some newbies, not yet quite familiar with the rating system, who just clicked that button? It happens sometimes, with any kind of vote or post.
Calling people closed-minded because their tastes differ doesn't always solve the problem.

(Just wanted to add - hey, don't be sad, with several dozen users it could be far worse than two mediocre votes. Even happens to me sometimes. :-P )

"*sigh* Some men are really hard to manipulate!" - Orchid

This post was edited by null on Apr 09, 2003.

And if they think something is mediocre they're very well allowed to express their opinion.

well .. if that would be so, so why then they dont speak up?
is this a rating contest or a goddamn forum system?!

is it just to make someone angry?
yeah? well done. i AM angry.

but it plainly is NOT about rating, to come back to the point.
its about people not getting their mouth/mind open/hands on keyboard!

either you post, and EXPRESS yourself, for goths sake! or you just troll off.

and thanks to this - people just clickin' an' clickin', but dont use their given chance to write something meaningful - i'm AFRAID of posting anything thats comes from myself into the only platform i knew to be at least a bit honest and thoughtful.

but maybe i was VERY wrong ..

ONCE AGAIN: if someone wants to express his/her opinion, then DO it. but please: by WRITING a goddamn post, and if it only were two single lines.

cu, w0lf.

Metal has no laws. Metal is the law.

This post was edited by oxygenius on Apr 09, 2003.

well .. if that would be so, so why then they dont speak up?

but please: by WRITING a goddamn post, and if it only were two single lines.

What are they supposed to write... "I think the post I'm replying to is excellent/nice/mediocre"?

"*sigh* Some men are really hard to manipulate!" - Orchid

but it plainly is NOT about rating, to come back to the point.
its about people not getting their mouth/mind open/hands on keyboard!

I don't think we should have to reply to every post we rate. You yourself didn't reply to 75% of the posts you ever cast a vote on.

Five of the eight examples you cited were poems, whose perception of quality can be very subjective, as with every work of art (and yeah, I've had my own art laughed at in my life so I know the only way to have everyone like your stuff is to never exhibit it. I do it nonetheless).

Added to that, all but one of them were in German on an English speaking site, which might not have pleased some. There have been several (English) poems that got rated very highly and some of them even made it to the homepage. One of your examples actually received a nice and an excellent vote, so I'm not sure why you list it.

The only post of the three non-prose examples you cited that objectively could have received a better rating is this comment by fallenangel, but then again only two people rated it as mediocre out of how many.

Please don't attribute to maliciousness what could as well be explained by something else. People usually have so much going on in their lives, they just don't care about being evil.

'Yeah, That's what Jesus would do. Jesus would bomb Afghanistan. Yeah.' - snowlion

i, for my part, have several thoughts wandering throu my mind, eg. some very harsh thesis about 'Mr. America' aka Brush, as null calls him.

To be honest, with each day passing he more and more reminds me of Hitler. I didn't post this (and my reasons behind it) because I didn't want to start another, eh, controversy.

Now let's see what ratings I get. :-P

"*sigh* Some men are really hard to manipulate!" - Orchid

To be honest, with each day passing he more and more reminds me of Hitler. I didn't post this (and my reasons behind it) because I didn't want to start another, eh, controversy.

Now let's see what ratings I get. :-P

thats EXACTLY what i thought of. damn, i was too direct. :D

ok, so now its out - i got the thesis/thought that goes like this:

bush says: 'Today the Iraq, Tommorow the nearer eastern, and the day after tommorow the Whole World!' .. and two days after tommorow 'we are ALL equal'.

the current situation in Iraq also reminds me of 1939 and the marching in into Poland.

Metal has no laws. Metal is the law.

the current situation in Iraq also reminds me of 1939 and the marching in into Poland.

Yeah. And the Anti-Bush / Anti-war people are being denounced as 'unpatriotic'.
Long live the right for free speech (unless you say the wrong things).

"Seit fünnf Uhrr fünfuntvierrzig wirrd jetzt zurrückgeschossen!"

"*sigh* Some men are really hard to manipulate!" - Orchid

Don't you think you're going a bit too far?
I think you can't compare Bush to Hitler because Bush is just someone who has to fulfill orders. Well, maybe I'm wrong, I have to admit I haven't pursued this topic very much. Anyway, I hope we don't get back to 1933. At least not every American is pro-Bush and pro-war and the reasons some are pro is, I hope, not blind trust in Bush/the masses but thinking war will improve a situation. My flat mate also said she thinks the war is the only reason to get rid off Saddam. Well, since Bin Laden I don't think so: The US have possibilities we don't dream of (and I think that's not just because I was an x-philie). They sure could have caught both men. Well maybe I'm just too naive. What do you think? Is war the only possibility to stop Saddam (no matter which other motives lead to it)...

Can anyone explain to me the meaning of IIRC, please?

"Sie wollen nichts anderes. Sie wollen kämpfen! Sie sind Soldaten! Fucking Wahnsinnige!" - Noel G.

Can anyone explain to me the meaning of IIRC, please?

i'm just guessing, but what about:
In Its Real Content

or

In Its Real Connection

or something similar?

Metal has no laws. Metal is the law.

Can anyone explain to me the meaning of IIRC, please?

"If I Remember Correctly."

You know, I don't think it's about Saddam alone. it's about manipulation of the people, undermining the constitution and basic civil rights, and waging war for personal profit. Lying to the people and stuff.

"*sigh* Some men are really hard to manipulate!" - Orchid

To be honest, with each day passing he more and more reminds me of Hitler.

An insult to Hitler. You have to at least admit that Hitler must have been a pretty smart guy. Bush is just an idiot.

Do you really think Hitler always knew what he's doing? :)
YOu should read the comic by... err... I forgot the name but I think it's very popular in German and it's really funny :)
"Hitler...??"
"Göring...!?"
You should see the picture!
Could read it again and again :D It's so true :)

"Sie wollen nichts anderes. Sie wollen kämpfen! Sie sind Soldaten! Fucking Wahnsinnige!" - Noel G.

This post was edited by Orchid on Apr 09, 2003.

YOu should read the comic by... err... I forgot the name but I think it's very popular in German and it's really funny :)

You probably mean this one. :-)

Adolf die Nazi-Sau, by Walter Moers (as you might have noticed), ISBN 3-8218-2959-1. I might have an e-book version around, if you'd like to have a look at it. Just ask. :-)

"*sigh* Some men are really hard to manipulate!" - Orchid

Yay!!! This is it! :) It's an absolute classic! :)

I have to admit I didn't expect more than absolute nonsense before reading it but it even beats that! :D

"Sie wollen nichts anderes. Sie wollen kämpfen! Sie sind Soldaten! Fucking Wahnsinnige!" - Noel G.

An insult to Hitler. You have to at least admit that Hitler must have been a pretty smart guy. Bush is just an idiot.

Now you're being sarcastic, yes? :-D

Hitler wasn't an alcoholic either. Eat this, George. :-)

"*sigh* Some men are really hard to manipulate!" - Orchid

Hitler wasn't an alcoholic either

But he was on coke, right? I've read he was really, really ill. Mentally. But he was nourishing himself very healthy - except the coke ;)

"Sie wollen nichts anderes. Sie wollen kämpfen! Sie sind Soldaten! Fucking Wahnsinnige!" - Noel G.

hmmm, you should read stupid white men by michael moore. bush has always claimed his favourite book from preschool was "the very hungry caterpiller" unfortunatly this book wasn't puplished until after good-old-georgey graduated!

the folowing is an open letter michael moore wrote to president bush:

Note: Michael Moore refers to President Bush as Governor Bush b/c you
Must remember we the people didn't elect him. For those of you who don't know him: Michael is an award-winning documentary filmmaker (Bowling for Columbine).

Monday, March 17th, 2003

George W. Bush
1600 Pennsylvania Ave.
Washington, DC

Dear Governor Bush:

So today is what you call "the moment of truth," the day that "France
And the rest of world have to show their cards on the table." I'm glad to hear that this day has finally arrived. Because, I gotta tell ya, having survived 440 days of your lying and conniving, I wasn't sure if I could take much more. So I'm glad to hear that today is Truth Day, 'cause I got a few truths I would like to share with you:

1. There is virtually NO ONE in America (talk radio nutters and Fox News aside) who is gung-ho to go to war. Trust me on this one. Walk out of the White House and on to any street in America and try to find five people who are PASSIONATE about wanting to kill Iraqis. YOU WON'T FIND THEM! Why? 'Cause NO Iraqis have ever come here and killed any of us! No Iraqi has even threatened to do that.

You see, this is how we average Americans think: If a certain so-and-so
Is not perceived as a threat to our lives, then, believe it or not, we don't want to kill him! Funny how that works!

2. The majority of Americans -- the ones who never elected you -- are
not fooled by your weapons of mass distraction. We know what the real issues are that affect our daily lives -- and none of them begin with I or end in Q.

Here's what threatens us: two and a half million jobs lost since you took office, the stock market having become a cruel joke, no one knowing if their retirement funds are going to be there, gas now costs two dollars a gallon -- the list goes on and on. Bombing Iraq will not make any of this go away. Only you need to go away for things to improve.

3. As Bill Maher said last week, how bad do you have to suck to lose a
popularity contest with Saddam Hussein? The whole world is against you,
Mr. Bush. Count your fellow Americans among them.

4. The Pope has said this war is wrong, that it is a SIN. The Pope! But
even worse, the Dixie Chicks have now come out against you! How bad does it have to get before you realize that you are an army of one on this war? Of course, this is a war you personally won't have to fight. Just like when you went AWOL while the poor were shipped to Vietnam in your place.

5. Of the 535 members of Congress, only ONE (Sen. Johnson of South
Dakota)has an enlisted son or daughter in the armed forces! If you really want to stand up for America, please send your twin daughters over to Kuwait right now and let them don their chemical warfare suits. And let's see every member of Congress with a child of military age also sacrifice their kids for this war effort.

What's that you say? You don't THINK so? Well, hey, guess what – we don't think so either!

6. Finally, we love France. Yes, they have pulled some royal screw-ups.
Yes, some of them can be pretty damn annoying. But have you forgotten we wouldn't even have this country known as America if it weren't for the French? That it was their help in the Revolutionary War that won it for us? That it was France who gave us our Statue of Liberty, a Frenchman who built the Chevrolet, and a pair of French brothers who invented the movies? And now they are doing what only a good friend can do -- tell you the truth about yourself, straight, no b.s. Quit pissing on the French and thank them for getting it right for once.

You know, you really should have traveled more (like once) before you
took over. Your ignorance of the world has not only made you look stupid, it has painted you into a corner you can't get out of.

Well, cheer up -- there IS good news. If you do go through with this
war, more than likely it will be over soon because I'm guessing there aren't a lot of Iraqis willing to lay down their lives to protect Saddam Hussein. After you "win" the war, you will enjoy a huge bump in the popularity polls as everyone loves a winner -- and who doesn't like to see a good ass-whoopin' every now and then (especially when it 's some third world ass!). And just like with Afghanistan, we'll forget about what happens to a country after we bomb it 'cause that is just too complex! So try your best to ride this victory all the way to next year's election. Of course, that's still a long ways away, so we'll all get to have a good hardy-har-har while we watch the economy sink even further down the toilet!

But, hey, who knows -- maybe you'll find Osama a few days before the election!

See, start thinking like THAT! Keep hope alive! Kill Iraqis -- they got our oil!!

Yours,

Michael Moore
www.michaelmoore.com

i personally loved it!!! sorry if you've read it before or are offended by it in any way.

-mel

Look at me! I'm a prostitute robot from the future!

hm. ..

on a side note: click this! (its in german but still funny as hell: D)

Metal has no laws. Metal is the law.

I've another one...

On a propaganda tournee through the States, George W. Bush visits a school and tries to explain his politics to the pupils. The little Bob has a question:

"Mr. President, i have three questions for you:
1. Why have you won the elections although you had less votes then Mr. Gore.
2. Why do u wanna attack the Iraq without any reasons?
3. Don't you think that the bomb on Hiroshima has been the biggest terroristic attack in history?"

In this moment the bell for the school-break is ringing and all pupils are running out of the classroom.
After the break, when the pupil got back to the class room, Bush invites the pupils again to question him.
Now it's Joes turn:
"Mr. President, i have five questions for you:
1. Why have you won the elections although you had less votes then Mr. Gore.
2. Why do u wanna attack the Iraq without any reasons?
3. Don't you think that the bomb on Hiroshima has been the biggest terroristic attack in history?
4. Why was the break-bell ringing 20 minutes earlier than normal
5. Where is Bob?"

The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it.

Nice, Alek. :D

I want to make it perfectly clear I don't want to start anything. I have a tendency to do that. It is just that right about the time everything was blown out of proportion, me having the unpopular opinion for bush, was getting some pretty nasty ratings at times. So to relate to what oxygenius was saying, I think I've been a victim first-hand.

You could argue that my post wasn't well written, but I noticed the trend was.. popular opinion = good ratings. Unpopular opinion = bad ratings. Maybe I write worse when the majority of nao doesn't agree. :-/

"If I die of a heart attack eating bacon, I'll be a happy man." -My father

This post was edited by Hawkeye on Apr 28, 2003.

me having the unpopular opinion for bush, was getting some pretty nasty ratings at times.

Don't want to start anything either, but IMHO the ratings you got for these posts were mostly for offensive content, not because of your opinion.

And my 40% rating was justly deserved, how? What did I say that was offensive? That I thought Bush was justified? Oh well, in that case, I'll just say whatever you want me to say since my opinion isn't popular.

And some of the things null was saying weren't exactly peachy keen either. Yet his ratings didn't follow that trend like mine did.

"If I die of a heart attack eating bacon, I'll be a happy man." -My father

This post was edited by Hawkeye on Apr 29, 2003.

And some of the things null was saying weren't exactly peachy keen either. Yet his ratings didn't follow that trend like mine did.

Well... the majority decided. Everybody has an opinion of their own, and I can't influence people to give me good ratings any more than you can.
But (as some already stated before), I don't want to start anything, so I'm not gonna go into detail here. Let's just try to let the past be past in order to keep this a peaceful place.

"*sigh* Some men are really hard to manipulate!" - Orchid

Heh...I'm about to step on some toes.

I've said my little piece about the rating system, but DUDE! It seems to me you use the rating system as a personal validation. My only complaint with the system as a whole is for the new folks like myself. Example:

I posted a question in the "Site Related" forum about a process. To me, the sorts of questions regarding site maneuverability should go without ratings. The reason: For newbies trying to rank up (and in order to be able to contribute more meaningful discussions), a low and unnecessary rating on a simple operations question hinders that process. I don't personally care whether you agree or disagree or like or don't like ANY of my posts. I don't need the rating system to make me feel better about myself - I already know I ROCK! But I must admit I was a little miffed to be 'rated' on a site question.

Now, back to your ranting...

so, well, whats so bad about someone who has experiences in doing drugs and talking about that? or suicide? or dead?

Uhm...I for one have no problem talking to anyone about any subject. Perhaps the reason for the low or mediocre rating is that it's been said and done and said and done and people are just tired of reading it? *ducking from the boot just thrown at my head* Seriously, if there are five topics covering basically the same subject, no matter how much a person spills his/her guts I'm gonna rate it how I see it. If it's well written, concise, thought-provoking (whether positive or negative thoughts) and EXCELLENT - I'll rate it EXCELLENT! If it's not, it just plain isn't. You can't fault people for their opinion. You just can't, and there's no way to justify doing so.

I read the entire thread from your original post to # 10360 where it seems to get off-subject and onto Bush (whom I refer to as "The Grinning Frat-Boy") and Hitler. I realize I'm re-hashing an old altercation, but hey - it's fun for me and that's what matters! :D On a positive end-note, I think your passion is inspiring and I hope you don't hate me too much for doing as you suggested:

either speak up, or be quiet for the rest of your (obviously lonely) days!

Ciao.

Something witty and evocative with just the right amount of self-deprecating humor.