Reading Movies

Yeah, but why would the machines want to rebuild Zion and thus form a new resistance? After all, the total destruction of Zion would solve their problem.

As I understood it, the world of the Matrix is rejected by a very small percentage of the plugged-in human population. For those few, the whole Zion farce is staged by the machines.

Zion or the resistance never were the problem for the machines. The only problem is the imperfection of the Matrix.

'Yeah, That's what Jesus would do. Jesus would bomb Afghanistan. Yeah.' - snowlion

I personally believe that there is only one matrix, but they are still in it, simular to what has been already said. If it was the "real world" why would the architech (really just a program) inside the "matrix" be in charge of the recreation of zion? so if there were two matrices, would it be a PROGRAM that would recreate zion? of course. as the oracle says (whose actress died at the age of 64 before filming Enter the Matrix and Matrix: Revolutions.), there is a program that governs everything. so this makes it seem that there is one huge matrix, where people think they can escape from one level to another where they are "free". To get the "big" picture, i sugguest playing the absolutely amazing video game, Enter the Matrix. it has one hour of live action scenes with all the real actors, so it really is like matrix 2.5.

2nd Corinthians 5:7 "for we walk by faith, not by sight" ............I might be wrong...............

Remember Smith also tried to infect morpheus, he never appeared to exibit any "power". I agree with the Neo fulfiling beyond the prophecy of his predeccesors theory though. I think the matrix within another matrix theory can be disproved by neo's going into a coma, it makes sense at first, but unless the primary matrix is somehow designed to have superpowerful clients and deals with them by making them use energy to use those powers, whatever, I guess we'll find out in Revelutions.

Do you like blue? I hope so, cuz thats the one thing about me that shall never change.

Remember Smith also tried to infect morpheus, he never appeared to exibit any "power".

First of all, Smith never finished infecting Morpheus (it was broken up by Neo); second, Morpheus was never as powerful to begin with as Neo was, so he wouldn't have any power.

"It was not God who created man, but man who created God." --Santa Caserio

Ok, I think I've got this figured out. . .

The Vigilance was destroyed by the Sentinel using a bomb.
The Hammer rescued Morpheus et al. after
the Nebuchadnezzar was destroyed, the same was the Vigilance was destroyed.
And Niyobe is captain of some other ship (sounds like "Loh-gohss")

I'll believe in anything if you'll just believe in anything

This post was edited by Magnifico on Jun 07, 2003.

And Niyobe is captain of some other ship (sounds like "Loh-gohss")

It's Niobe and Logos. I think logos is Greek for "the word" and is still often used in a religious context (the word of God).

German is one of the languages in which words are pronounced exactly as they are written (character by character) so we don't have such a hard time figuring out how to spell a word once we heard it :)

'Yeah, That's what Jesus would do. Jesus would bomb Afghanistan. Yeah.' - snowlion

Gotcha.

Linguistics can be hard to grasp when your mother tongue has three to five sounds for each vowel and many consonant sounds have multiple letters, while multiple consonants have different sounds. . .

I'll believe in anything if you'll just believe in anything

As for the ending, I don't think that the Vengeance (?) could have released the EMP blast, because they would have to power back up, take off, and then show up; they got to Neo and his menagerie far too quickly for that.

That is a damn good point. The only example being from the end of the Matrix when the EMP is released from the Nebacanezer(SP?), but not until Neo is unplugged from the Matrix so that his brain does not crash from the power outage.

Do neo's power supercede the Matrix and hold water in the real world? Is this true becuase he choose a different path then the 6 other Neo's before him.

Here is another excellend point i heard from a friend - In Matrix Reloaded the architect says that there was 5 Neo's before the current Neo - is that correct? If so the machines of the matrix are unaware that Neo actually died a 6th time and came back to life, making the current Neo the 7th - a biblically important number. At the end of the matrix Neo dies and comes back to life, but he was unplugged, therefore the machines might not have known that his heart actually stopped beating. I don't believe in the bible, nor do i read it, but the first has many references to it. Doesn't jesus come back on the 7th day? The world/universe was created in 7 days. And all that Makaveli crap which i know nothing about, but that was also 7 days i think.

The fact that Neo is the 7th version of himself, but the machines do not realize that he is the 7th makes him special not only in the Matrix but in the real world. Neo has not even come close to realizing his full potential in either world.

A quick side note - the first matrix movie was created without the intention of creating any more movies - it should have been kept this way. If the W brothers wanted to make more movies and money, they should have made prequel movies that explained what the two anime episodes - The 2nd Renisance part I and II - explain. www.theanimatrix.com if you haven't seen them.

The meaning of the Matrix (and the sequel) can be viewed in multiple ways, really.

(Buddhism): Neo first abandons his "self" to the cause of rebellion and denies that he is the one (he's told he isn't, and accepts it). He then, through his denial, becomes the One, attaining "Enlightenment." After his Englightenment, he can see the world around him, the world that so many people believes to be real, but is nothing more than "real" in the sensory meaning; there's another world beyond this one, which he now must show to everyone else.
Side note: 5 (6, if Alien8u is correct) previous "The One"s = previous lives of Neo (remember, he discusses the whole concept of his past life inside the Matrix in the first one in the car ride to the Oracle).

(Christianity): Morpheus prepares the way for Neo, akin to John the Baptist, but Neo is the true Messiah figure in the Judeo-Christian sense. He sacrifices himself, and becomes the One, the man who will free everybody from the Matrix (John 3:16, remember those signs at football games, anti-gay rallies, etc.? "For God so loved the world that he offered up his only son to sacrifice for the world" or something close to that). His death is particularly painful (he takes quite a beating from Smith), but he comes back relatively shortly thereafter. And, of course, rips Agent Smith a new one.

(Plato/Socrates): Allegory of the cave, your basic description of the Matrix. According to Plato, we are all tied down to a rock in some giant cave; we can't look back to see other people (read: Gods, superior beings, whatever else) behind us, but they are projecting shadows of various objects on the cave wall (the wall we all see). Because we know nothing else, we believe that the shadow of a tree actually is a tree, so that if we saw a real tree, we wouldn't know that it's really a tree. Socrates finished the Allegory of the Cave in his "Republic," writing that one man would be freed from the cave and shown the real world. The light of the sun, the trees, the sky, everything he sees hurts, because he must realize that the world he knew is a fake. Yet once he accepts this truth, he embraces it wholly and goes back to the cave to tell the others.

P.S.- Morpheus' late, great ship was called the Nebuchadnezzar (Mark 3, Number 11: those numbers appear behind Morpheus in the first scene inside the ship, and are one of the bases for the Christianity-allegory concept of the Matrix {thing Mark 3:11, as in the Bible})

I'll believe in anything if you'll just believe in anything

This post was edited by Magnifico on May 19, 2003.

I disagree with the opinion that the Matrix should have stayed one movie: the end left you wondering what was going to happen next (and I actually enjoyed this movie more; it makes you think a lot more -- plus the great action sequences :D) And by the way, the first movie WAS created with sequels in mind (they would only be produced, however, if the original made enough money)

Do neo's power supercede the Matrix and hold water in the real world? Is this true becuase he choose a different path then the 6 other Neo's before him.

I have two explainations as to why Neo was able to stop the machines (one has been stated above, but here it is again):

1. When Smith tried to "infect" Neo, he did not fully succeed, but he altered Neo's brain patters sufficiently that he is now in tune with machines in the real world and can control them. Remember, Smith did the same thing with Bane (except it worked fully): since he infected Bane, Bane's mind now believes completely that he is Smith; thus, in the Matrix, Bane's "self-image projection" is as Smith. In the real world, however, Bane cannot change his appearance to fit his thoughts, but he does take on Smith's personality, ambitions, etc. The same thing happened with Neo, but to a much smaller degree (the infection didn't work); therefore, Neo can control the machines.

2. When Neo went to the architect, the perfection of the One's code entered his body (through his brain, which is plugged in). If he had gone through the "correct" door, he would reset the Matrix and choose 23 successors to Zion. If he had left through the other door, the perfection in code would have left his body, and he would no longer have any powers. However, Neo did not actually open either door: you never see the door turning (note that throughout the entire movie, the important part about "programmed" doors is the physical action of inserting the key and turning the handle, and he does not turn the handle this time); instead, the room explodes (dunno how... maybe Neo blew it up?) and Neo flies out. So the perfect code stayed inside Neo: thus he is incredible in the Matrix. Also, since everything in the Matrix imprints itself onto the mind, some of his powers in the Matrix transferred to the real world, allowing him to control the machines.

Personally, the first theory here seems a lot more plausible, and I like it a lot more. A friend gave me the 2nd idea, and I thought it was interesting, so I posted it.

The theory about Neo's death making him the 7th "One" is interesting. However, before he dies in the first Matrix, he does not have any powers of the One (he cannot defeat Smith; instead, he has to run to a phone). Notice that after his rebirth, he never has to escape to a phone again (nothing can stop him); before, however, he and the rest had to run to phones all the time.

"It was not God who created man, but man who created God." --Santa Caserio