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Reading oxygenius's journal

Once upon a time, there was something called BBSes - Bulletin Board Systems - which you had to call using your modem. Those times are (truely) gone.

Then, some guy(s) thought about making up a community system in the Internet that really IS a community. in between these guys was Jaz, the creator of NetAlive.Org aka NAO.

He called NAO 'a place, far from the maddening crowds, to lean back and enjoy a good discussions' and friendly asked 'the brain-deads to stay out'. And yes, the concept worked out - during the early years, it felt like a REAL community, people gathered around you who basically liked the same - coding - but didnt obviously think the same.

so NAO was about the people - not about the content - the community feeling.

Nowadays, picture has officially changed: it's not anymore about the people, it's about the content. if you dont insert 'good' content, then the users have the right to rate you 'into oblivion', meaning, they can give you 'bad ratings', giving you less options to post (and rate, of course).

So far, so worse. But what IS 'good' and what is 'bad' content?

As in the current state, 'good' content - aka good posts - are those who show:

a) superior mastering of speech and english language
b) clean, non-too difficult thoughts
c) something new (questionable)
d) something going conform with the 'rebelic' thoughts of NAO users

'Bad content' is bound to similar terms:

a) not-well mastering of the english language
b) problems in expressing yourself/your thoughts
c) something too often mentioned
d) rating complaints
e) controversal thoughts, eg. about sexuality, morality/ethics, etc.

So all we can admit is that 'it's about the content - not the people'. We like not to rate people because of their other personal thoughts, but what content they submit to the community.

And that's plainly said wrong - total bullshit.

Oh - see - bad word! Oh no - i'm getting sarcastic! :->
That will your baddy baddy post go down in rates - hey stop!

A community is made of people, not of content. The rating system implemented disrespects this fact. But people dont.

So NAOis do reluctantly 'abuse' the rating system to express their opinions about someone - NOT to decide whether new content (aka 'a new post') is good or bad. They use it to hold up their illusion (also known as 'view') of another one's personality - no matter, if it's so totally wrong and twisted that others would cry out in terror and call for Amnesty International, WHO or just to dumb a nuke up them asses.

Content is not rated because of its inner-laying plain and simple structure, something it's made of, but because some folks on NAO decided the one who did post it is 'one of the good ones'.

That's why Frank quit - too much shit loaded upon his pseudonyme - and i have the appaling thought that counts for me too.

Just use your brain - if you got one - and tell your fingers/hand to access this link:

NAO: User directory - sorted by rank

Now compare my rankings with Frank's.
- See the similarity?

Frank has given up on NAO because he correctly came to the conclusion his pseudonyme/name is loaded with too mauch baggage, and no one would ever take his posts serious anymore or even come to think about WHY he creates controversal, non-conform posts.

Now, the same seems to count for my current pseudonyme - now GO OUT and compare other people's posting with mine. Take for instance Anduril: totally new to the game, but already a high-ranker (two white stars, one yellow) - during a period of time ... nah.

Or take mel's poems and posts - better rated than mine, but mainly the same content.

To make it official: this is NOT 'YARC' - Yet Another Rating Complaint - but my final conclusion on NAOs current state.

NetAlive.Org is still about the people, and _NOT_ about the content - but the vibe's gone wrong, the people aint mature adults, but childish, prude, closed-minded lamers I normally wouldn't like to be with in the same room.

I'm fed with that childish manners of not being able to PLAINLY SIMPLY talk about sexuality, other peoples view of current evolving situations in world (politics), but instead fight fight fight for their right to rate you to hell. May you burn there yourself - you can also put that bad rating this JOURNAL ENTRY (*doh*) will get up your ass. Your mouth reeks of rotten brain, and anyone trying to mail me about this FUCKING PERSONAL NON-RATEBALE journal entry goes directly to /dev/null.

and because i'm such a bad guy, as it looks like - something for the people able to read/understand german: Ihr könnt gerne weiterhin der Masse der Gesichts- und Meinungslosen in den Arsch kriechen, und Euch in Eure 'Anti-Fucking-Anti'-Haltung hineinsteigern - aber denkt bitte dabei auch an die Toten am Wegesrand (Frank, martin, Sifar, RCD, ... und vielleicht auch bald oxygenius), die für diese ehemals tolle Site gestorben sind - aber ICH hab die schnauze gestrichen voll. es reicht. ich spiel nicht mehr den dummen, als den ihr mich versucht hinzustellen - den sündenbock der nation, der ja keine expressiven, abstrakten gedanken aussprechen soll, sonst könnte ja die welt von untergehen!

NON-conformity will reign! No Matter, What Shit You Will Pile Upon Me - I WILL FIGHT YOU WITH ALL FORCES!

and who doesnt like my opinion should use his god-damned brain to let my CONTENT sink in, BEFORE he/she/it abuses once again the 'rating' pull-down menu.

to quote Frank from his site: 'It was a wild 4 years thats better left forgotten about.'

I'm beginning to strongly think that too - wasted time i could have put into my own projects and life.

plonk.

Metal has no laws. Metal is the law.

This post was edited by oxygenius on May 27, 2003.

This seems like the culmination of mistargeted feelings of resentment derived from your own maladroitness at making a contribution.

May you please choke on your own puke? Thanks.
Where did you lose your brain? When Daddy hit you too hard on the soften part of your skull? Did they then insert a machine into your head so you could think only logically and not human-like, parallel-prcoessing anymore? Is it that why you didnt understand my total twisted post and thought it to be an abusive, out of sadism made post as most of the 'oh so opportuné' masses did?

not asking about the backgrounds, just pulling the switch?
No wonder Texas is so electrifying to Bush ...

I perfectly know that i'm just using the same options and features to fight scum as those i do denounce in my post. So i'm not better - what wonderful, appaling thought. :->

cu, w0lf.

Metal has no laws. Metal is the law.

This post was edited by oxygenius on May 27, 2003.

May you please choke on your own puke? Thanks.

Where did you lose your brain? When Daddy hit you too hard on the soften part of your skull?

I perfectly know that i'm just using the same options and features to fight scum as those i do denounce in my post.

Now this is more than one step too far.

Just who the fuck do you think you are? Got an issue with anger management? Well fine, nobody's blaming or ridiculing you for that and there's probably some extra tolerance and understanding from the people who know it, but anger issue or not, this crosses the border! Get lost and don't come back until you've got something worth contributing again. This crap makes me sick.

"*sigh* Some men are really hard to manipulate!" - Orchid

I tried to put my observation as lightly as possible.

Does this mean you disagree?

I can't speak for anyone else, but I know that for Jeanette and I, this site is about the people.

You are one of them oxy, we love you guys! we come here to get different opinions, not the same generic shit passed through again and agin. personally, when that's happening, i stop reading. Posts like yours which are something different to what I'm used to, i read more.

The thing that I love about NAO is the sense of community. do you know what it feels like coming on and seeing that someone has replied to what I've written. someone cared enough to reply. this site has made me so much more ha[[y and confident in everyday life.

Admittedly, english is my native language. and i am not as different from the others here as you portray yourself to be. but you're a part of this community.

I personally would be devastated if you left. you can't leave us all now.

as for people who rate on whether or not they agree with the posters opinion, shame on you! seriously, i dont care about my ratings. i have always got good ratings, but i don't always have the courage to write what i want and feel the way you do. sometimes i just dont want to display my ignorance of our world to you all.

i think this is why i have moved up the ranking system at the speed i have. i know i am younger and more ignorant than most of you here, so i dont say what i want too. i will start to do so more often. your post made me think about what i should be posting here.

you see, even as i write this, the "structure" is going round in circles, non-existent.

this community would not be the same without you. you're having more courage than the average person should not penalize you.

i love reading your posts. they are always humourous and enlightening. you express yourself so well taht i think we all can empathise with you.

when i come on this website and someone is depressed, i hate it. but i love you all enough to at least want to help.

whether you like it or not, i consider you guys, all of you, to be my friends. pretty sad, considering i've never met, and probably never will meet any of you. but i will always remember you as my lifeline through adolescence.

please dont leave us. please dont leave me.

-mel

Look at me! I'm a prostitute robot from the future!

rating complaints

Just wanted to note that discussions on ratings are absolutely not forbidden, but some people (like me) just are sick and tired of hearing the same whining all over and over and over again.
"Oooh, that post got one mediocre rating, I don't think it deserves this, so you're all Nazis and this site suppresses free speech!" -- I just so can't see it anymore! What about the rater's right to express their opinion by rating a post the way they think it's appropriate? And even if the rating was inappropriate (e.g. a red one), is it okay to insult the whole community as such because one single person made a mistake? Don't you think the others might feel insulted by being called closed-minded?

controversal thoughts, eg. about sexuality, morality/ethics, etc.

Now this sure is wrong. There have been (are) so many discussions about morality, and some about sex, and apart from some 'mediocre' ratings (which are always bound to happen) I really don't see any problems here.

And yes, the concept worked out - during the early years, it felt like a REAL community

Still feels like a community to me, altho I probably don't spend as much time here as I used to (-->busy schedule). I'm sorry if it doesn't work for you.

One thing tho, there were numerous discussions about user meetings, and two meetings actually taking place (you joined us in the last one), so to me it's hard to believe that it's absolutely not about the people. Probably it's part about the people and part about content, which I think isn't so bad after all! You need content because that's what makes a discussion, and you need people because that's what holds the community together.

[Allowed stuff to write]
d) something going conform with the 'rebelic' thoughts of NAO users

*** Waiting for somebody to say "controversial ideas are not allowed" to present long long list of well-rated controversial topics ***

but the vibe's gone wrong, the people aint mature adults, but childish, prude, closed-minded lamers I normally wouldn't like to be with in the same room.

You didn't look soo uncomfortable spending two days with us during the last NAO meeting. Since MrCrash seems a bit busy at the moment, is it okay if I just tell him that he is a childish, prude, closed-minded lamer (as we all are), or would you prefer to tell it all non-regular users yourself?

So NAOis do reluctantly 'abuse' the rating system to express their opinions about someone - NOT to decide whether new content (aka 'a new post') is good or bad.

How can you say that NAO users generally abuse the rating system? Am I supposed to rate you red now, because this is obviously an unfounded and stupid insult to me?

Who the heck do you think you are to have the right to start a general you're-all-jerks sweeping attack on entire NAO? We're all childish lamers because we don't share your idea of how everything is supposed to be, but rather stick to our own opinion? Now how childish is that?

Re-reading your post another time, I get the impression that you're just bitter about not getting the ratings you've expected. Now calm down and stop whining, because you're about to piss me off as well. I've mostly enjoyed your posts (or skipped them when they didn't speak to me - exactly as I do with all posts), but your constant whining is starting to get on my nerves. Your posts would be rated much better if it wasn't for those many "you intolerant bad-rating wankers" posts of yours!
This was never about rebels or the "spirit" or whatever. It's a place to express your thoughts, and see what other think about them. If you can't habdle people's reactions, there's nobody to blame but you. Whining about how intolerant we are (which is just crap) won't get you anywhere.

Now call me a Nazi because I'm trying to suppress your opinion and innermost thoughts. It'd make me really happy.

"*sigh* Some men are really hard to manipulate!" - Orchid

[Allowed stuff to write]
d) something going conform with the 'rebelic' thoughts of NAO users

*** Waiting for somebody to say "controversial ideas are not allowed" to present long long list of well-rated controversial topics ***

okay, lets say: the image SOME of us have in the eyes of others make controversal opinions, thoughts in ANY way - even it is was some of my abstract lyrica, which obviously are too much for some - unwanted, flamebait, etc.

i for sure have had my flame-wars, and i surely did make mistakes, but it currently looks to me as on ANYTHING i write sticks the label 'ba-a-a-a-ad' (as in goat) and 'rate me down i'm just average and mediocre'. Hey stop - is this thing about people or is it about getting good ratings? I once thought it was about people - now it is to me as about getting the best rank, best in anything.

I've compared all my posts, and see: anything I write that REALLY means something to me, holds a well-thought thought or opinion is called 'average'. yeah, then. so i am an average user in a superior mass. wonderful to know.

... best best best ... *bah*.

rivalry and concurrence. what do i need that shit for?
this is definitly NOT why i'm around. X-(

ut the vibe's gone wrong, the people aint mature adults, but childish, prude, closed-minded lamers I normally wouldn't like to be with in the same room.

You didn't look soo uncomfortable spending two days with us during the last NAO meeting. Since MrCrash seems a bit busy at the moment, is it okay if I just tell him that he is a childish, prude, closed-minded lamer (as we all are), or would you prefer to tell it all non-regular users yourself?

at THIS time, it wasnt the case - at THIS time, Martin and the others where still WITH NAO, not setting up a community fitting to their moods and opinions.

Now NAO is split - people are gone because of several shit (which i wont go in deeper, as anybody is allowed to read Martin's, sifar's, etc. posts to this topic). NAO doesnt feel that home like before.

Now Frank has told Jaz to delete his account, any posts he wrote in the past 2 years.

And this brought me to think - are we that bad, at all? Is sarcsasm evil? I dont think so. Sarcasm and irony is the unloved child of anything that shows up problems. Maybe not in itself, but why the person started saying these sarcastic things.

And another question: do we tend to label anything we can? Yes. Definitive. Label in good and bad with no grey matter in between. May it be a rating system that helps a lot to easilier sort things out into the 'good' and the 'bad' shelf, or may it be plain not-thinking - as you correctly identified my flame answer to mace's post some posts above - well, its that simple and easy.

I originallly wanted to write a nice article: people, think of the others - there may be other opinions, and they may look to you so totally wrong, so totally twisted you gotta scream - but you have at least to tolerate em. You can try to show these others your point of view, and why you _think_ it's more correct than theirs - but hey, stay polite, even if it doesnt work out. Dont abuse your rating pull-down menu for making those persons thoughts bad. They AINT.

But then, nobody gives a fuck about what i'm saying.

So i created THIS very harsh, hateful, bitter and sarcastic on-over-to-all-kill-them-ill-headed Manifesto.

For sure, i was in an ill, ranting, raging mood - and maybe i overacted. but maybe, if i hadnt put it that way, once again everybody thought it to be 'just another rating-complaint' - AS IF ANYTHING OGING ON AT NAO WAS ABOUT RATINGS! *doh*

I havent seen anything that did NOT prove my theory about this yet. But at least the people LOOK onto what i wrote - as hateful and sarcastic it is. Although i totally DISlike that writing style ... it's _not_ my favorite, thanks. :(

And this isnt just an answer to your post, null, after i'm totally sure others will read it. I _always_ try to create posts that others will understand, too, as ALWAYS others are going to read the shit i post. And if THIS thinking is evil, and bad, and unwanted, then it's too late for this site...

so i'd be better done in remaining quiet, yeah? In letting all this pain go on before my eyes? Seeing people i _adore_ coming once in and never coming back because they were scared away?

Be quiet, turn your head, dont look at it, dont hear the screams, believe it hasnt happened. Putting up all what is good is the best method to turn down anything thats totally worse.

To get back at the beginning of my answer - hm ... well. anything that isnt left-winged, happily screaming for PC democracy, gets bad ratings. a-ha. ratings. for opinions. how much do i get - 50$? 100 $? lets buy them out with ratings - i dont like their opinions anymore, lets rate em down. Just look at what you did in those 'Bush is evil' discussions. I wont go in further, as IMHO people should use their brains themselves.

- Oh yeah, i think i gonna get a sarcastic answer to this, too. so maybe writing generalized was better, aint it? -

cu, w0lf.

ps: did you notice? no emoticons, smileys, as i called them when i started ... am i getting better? :-/

Metal has no laws. Metal is the law.

This post was edited by oxygenius on May 27, 2003.

This post was deleted by request of the author.

"you're mighty brave in cyber-space, flame boy!"

And btw for those it concerns i have been clean of heroin for 4 days.

Congratulations! It's great to hear this. Really.

As for oxygenius, you know, the problem is not controversy. We've had a great amount of controversial topics / hot discussions, even without oxygenius participating. This has never been a problem.
The problem is when somebody gets rude and starts insulting or swearing at others for no reason.

Take this post in replying to, well thought out, opinionated,50%, point made.

And also very, very irritating.

Let me pick a few examples:

(Numerous complaints that people abuse the rating system, and that the rating system as such sucks anyway and should be changed or gotten rid of)

Feels like we've had this for the 1,000,000,000th time. You can't blame people for getting tired of it.

the people aint mature adults, but childish, prude, closed-minded lamers I normally wouldn't like to be with in the same room.

Apparently talking about NAO in general, no exceptions found. Me being part of NAO, I for one don't like to be called a childish, prude, close-minded lamer. And this is definitely not the first time he does this.

And take the German text (why German? Afraid of more people understanding it?).

Ihr könnt gerne weiterhin der Masse der Gesichts- und Meinungslosen in den Arsch kriechen

Here he's telling about the masses of people without a face or opinion, and invites us to go on crawling up their butts as we've used to.

es reicht. ich spiel nicht mehr den dummen, als den ihr mich versucht hinzustellen - den sündenbock der nation, der ja keine expressiven, abstrakten gedanken aussprechen soll, sonst könnte ja die welt von untergehen!

(Very) loose translation: We're all making fun of him, disrespect him, and try to censor/mob him because we fear his expressive and abstract thoughts. He's not gonna be the nation's fall guy any longer.

I WILL FIGHT YOU WITH ALL FORCES!

and who doesnt like my opinion should use his god-damned brain to let my CONTENT sink in, BEFORE he/she/it abuses once again the 'rating' pull-down menu.

And so on and so on and so on. No matter how well-written, an insult will always be an insult.

Having hardly ever rated any of his 'expressive' or 'abstract' posts (I don't rate a post when I don't understand it or don't have any strong feelings towards it), I'm still part of the group (NAO) he collectively and repeatedly swears at, calls lamers or idiots, childish and closed-minded. How am I not to feel insulted?

Question: if you disagree with what some people do (or don't like some people not liking what you're doing/writing), is it okay to call them all intolerant assholes and expect them to bend to your will?

Wow, I'm on the highway, and hundreds of cars are coming towards me.
They must all be heading in the wrong direction.

"*sigh* Some men are really hard to manipulate!" - Orchid

It seems like all these rating complaints never faint as long as there is a rating system. But strange, I only three people out of all the NAO users having regularly complaint about it: Hawkeye, Frank and oxgenius. And with each one we had a long, tiring and mostly unfair hold thread.

Now it started again and I just have the impression of immaturity. It seems like oxygenius is really hard-trying in holding up a picture of him being somewhat extraterrestrial.
I don't know which problems bother you but they seem immense and I think you should talk to someone about that. You're like hiding behind a mask. All this goth stuff, black, strange poems, it's okay, you may like it, sure, but people may see you as a normal guy though and I think that's what bothers you. It seems as you really want to fit the cliché of an out-of-touch-guy whom we all should be afraid of.
It's like you want to be an outsider, you want to be opposite of the whole community. Well, if you really want us to exclude you, what did you come here for?

Sorry if I'm talking nonsense, it's just my opinion. I was searching for a reason why you're constantly critizising.

"Sie wollen nichts anderes. Sie wollen kämpfen! Sie sind Soldaten! Fucking Wahnsinnige!" - Noel G.

Ok, so maybe we've all got our complaints about NAO. Has anybody else noticed that this thread has actually sparked a really great (very important) conversation about how NAO has turned out/where it's going, and has sort of roused everybody into tossing in their two cents? I don't agree with Oxygenius (and I hope you don't leave, man; gotta see those claws one more time!), but I think it's great that he put out that first post. I'm still something of a newb here, so you might ignore me or you might not. . . but I think that NAO needs more threads like this, where people are more willingly to defend or attack something. I don't mean a flame-thread or anything where you get to say whatever (our forums got that and it hasn't been pretty), but when you stay in completely 'civil' discussions, a lot of the message can get lost in an attempt to stay 'civil.'

So let's just calm down a little bit and keep this place together; it beats the hell out of any other forums I've seen.

Thbbbbt

Listen up people, this string is ridiculous. Oxy, stop worrying about what people think about you, because that is what all this shit boils down to. You are acting like a child. A screaming, kicking little baby whos lollypop got taken away.

So what, your posts get rated down. WHO GIVES A SHIT. YOU put your ideas and poems out their to the public, so dont get all whiney when people give their opinions. After all, they are just opinions. If you have confidence in your ideas and are proud of your posts, then none of these "negative" ratings would matter. SO GET OVER IT.

If you want to bitch and moan about this, and let it consume you, then LEAVE.

And as for fallenangle and her departure, I have two words. GOOD RIDDANCE. For someone who is so "different", she sure seems to break under pressure. "If oxy leaves, so do I"..what kind of bullshit it that? BAAAA BAAAA (sheep). I can see now darling, when its all said and done, that you aren't as different as you portray yourself to be. And people that are truley their own person and are completly comfortable with themselves, don't need to go around bragging about it.

So goodbye, leave, get out. And from these last couple of posts, I'm sorry to say that I will not miss either of you.

We should of brought a bag of rocks....

This post was edited by POWF on May 27, 2003.

OOOOHHHHHH...

ohhhhh.

i dont like this, any of this, one little bit.
Everyones mad and saying bad things and that should not be happening! not here!

well, bye bye sammy
see you soon!

i laeve for a few days, see what happens? a world war errupts.

where did all this come from, im really new here, but i didnt see any of this coming! shock!

@ powf, its fine to have opinions on people, but not childish nasty ones about people YOU DONT EVEN KNOW!

*spins in a circle* *dies*

@ powf, its fine to have opinions on people, but not childish nasty ones about people YOU DONT EVEN KNOW!

This whole thread was started by someone hurling nasty stuff at people he doesn't even know.

'Yeah, That's what Jesus would do. Jesus would bomb Afghanistan. Yeah.' - snowlion

This post was edited by Jaz on May 27, 2003.

How Dare You. your post is as much flame-bait as anything else we have seen in this change.

and here's my bit of it to add, it seems like one big venting session to me. here's a few problems I have with YOU.

I have two words. GOOD RIDDANCE

you self rightous bitch. and as this whole thing seems ot be on ratings, who were the morons who rated this pice ofGod Knows What nice, and even excellent.

SO GET OVER IT.

This seems to be your solution to everything. and hears mine, WHY DONT YOU SHUT THE FUCK UP?? do you have anything constructive to say...obviously not. hear is a piece of advice, speak when you have something to say, not when you simply want an excuse to abuse someone.

You are acting like a child. A screaming, kicking little baby whos lollypop got taken away.

what a lovely little metaphore. your english skills surely are fantastic.

"If oxy leaves, so do I"..what kind of bullshit it that? BAAAA BAAAA (sheep).

it's called friendship and support. you obviously aren't familiar with this. you see, when somebody you care about is hurting, you do your best to help them through it, or simply to feel better.

I can see now darling, when its all said and done, that you aren't as different as you portray yourself to be. And people that are truley their own person and are completly comfortable with themselves, don't need to go around bragging about it.

I Beg You Pardon. have you actually read any of fallenangels posts? have we not had this confoming to non-conformity debate a million times? have all not agreed that there is no individuality, merely doing what you want? your 19 right? grow up and act your age. listen to yourself, what makes you such a fucking expert on the world.

there is nothing a hate less than a world weary teenager who think she knows everything about the world. YOU DONT.

So goodbye, leave, get out. And from these last couple of posts, I'm sorry to say that I will not miss either of you.

your not sorry you contemptous whore. dont act sincere. whats going through your head now? chances are its something along the lines of "oh good, two high-rankers are leaving, nows my chance!"

For someone who is so "different", she sure seems to break under pressure.

excuse me, but since when does being different mean you are strong, you sure are confused darling.

you are one of the most arrogant people i have ever had the pleasure of conversing with. but you don't even make arguing fun, your points are incomplete and generally make little sense. you insult my intelligence and waste my time. and i will now use my debating skills to rebutt a few pints that you are lame enough to try....don't worry, ill leave a few just to keep the argument going.

1) yes i am younger than you, get over it...i only talk about what i know and believe.

2) yes this entire post has been flamebait as was yours...i dont deny it, but at least mine is coherent and makes sense!

the rest are up to you, but before i leave, i beg you, please make your arguments better and truthfull, you're taking all the fun out of this,

in anticipation darling,
-Mel

Look at me! I'm a prostitute robot from the future!

Let's stop this right now, shall we?

"*sigh* Some men are really hard to manipulate!" - Orchid

This post was edited by null on May 28, 2003.

Yes...this is definetly icky.

Anyway, I'm done with this post. Obvisouly it was created out of anger and unfortunetly it ended with even more anger between people. Some mean shit was said, some from me, some from others (not just you MelMel).

I agree with Null, lets just stop this right now.

We should of brought a bag of rocks....

Maybe people expect too much from NAO: the one place to write everything and be completely understood by everybody, always getting the replies and ratings one hopes for, the whole crowd living together in perfect harmony.

NAO is a great place, but it will never be perfect. Because 'perfect' is subjective, and if you've ever worked on a bigger IT/Web project, you know that there's always something left to do. NAO is also populated by many humans with different characters, opinions and backgrounds, so everybody getting along 100% all the time is virtually impossible.

I think the trick is to learn to live with this.

Just my .02. :-)

"*sigh* Some men are really hard to manipulate!" - Orchid

Nice point. Nothing to add :)

"Sie wollen nichts anderes. Sie wollen kämpfen! Sie sind Soldaten! Fucking Wahnsinnige!" - Noel G.

So you've gone. Why are all the good people leaving just when I found NAO. You people have brilliant ideas and i thought i could learn a lot from you, but now i'm just begining to feel depressed. This site seems to have once been a malestrom of good ieas and personal views that has shifted in the oblivion of pointless argueing over the rating system. I almost feel like leaving myself.

Peace Oxy, hope you find someplace better.

Do you like blue? I hope so, cuz thats the one thing about me that shall never change.