Reading zen's journal

***WARNING...SOME ADULT CONTENT!!!***

I’m gay. I can’t say that I’ve said that all my life. In fact, it’s only been in the last 8 years, max, that I’ve come close to acknowledging that to myself.

When I was in school, I described my self as straight, although I knew deep down that I must be bisexual. In the 1980s, listening to Dr. Ruth Westheimer, I heard of the Kinsey Scale, of 1 to 10. I forget which end was the totally-straight, and which the totally gay end, but I self-identified as a 5 on that scale. The exact middle, I was, perhaps, the perfect bisexual.

In school, when younger, I told people that I was straight, and acted accordingly. Never wanted to give anyone the impression that I was anything but completely straight. I even tried to date a few times, but failed in my social life miserably. I think that I was, at some point, attracted to females. I did want to think that I was straight, even though my deep down feelings told me otherwise. And I also drank alot at that time.

Of course, I’ve always been fascinated by skin, and flesh of all types, and configurations. I love skin, preferably smooth, and hairless; although I can live with the right hair in the right places on male or female bodies. And truth be told, I love seeing nudity, and nakedness. Maybe I’m not a Kensey 5: perhaps I’m just a nudist!!

Any way, these days, for the most part I feel comfortable calling myself gay (within certain circles of course). I adore flesh. I love seeing naked guys. I “fav” nude dudes on DeviantArt. I regularly (well, more or less) go to gay porn sites. In my virtual life, I’m open about my sexuality. In real life, I’m less open; but if I trust the person, I won’t lie about it, and will tell the person of my orientation, eventually.

I think that since as long as I’ve been drawing, and doing artwork, I look at people wondering how they’re put together. So I’ve watched people for a long time, not necessarily for an erotic attraction, but just cause it’s what I’ve always done.

Lately, though, I’ve become fascinated again, about the female form. Actually, not just the form, but certain parts of the form. I’ve been thinking of the woman’s soft furry patch between her legs, and the wonderful shell-like parting of the vaginal lips, and labia glistening so pinky soft in the light of a setting sun. I’ve been thinking of not only dating, but the whole courtship thing, and dancing and being with a woman, and waking up with her, and looking into her beautiful brown, or soft slate grey eyes, and kissing her so profusely, and very inside of the soul of who she is. And Thinking of gettting naked with her, and holding and caressing every inch of her luscious body, warm with the heat of our breathing, and holding her tightly and rubbing every inch of her untill she shivvers and quivvers, and quakes from the anticipation of my touch on her lips, and neck, and the deep kiss, dark and long on her neck, and behind the ears, and down the neck, to breasts, ready with glistening sweat, and the feel, of my warm, soft lips on hers, as my fingers gently slid, oh-so-lovingly, soft and gentle down to her furry, lightly-haired mount of Venus, and inbetween, to that lovely, poetic, parting of the greater and minor lips, to its warm, and waiting conclusion.

So I went to the store to get some porn with naked ladies on the cover. I looked over all the magazines, and the babes were naked. And they looked hott, and I guarentee that I’d have seen their beavers split, and smiling...and I was going to get it; but there was just one problem. It just looked nasty, and, well, dirty. I left there without getting the books with the naked babes on the cover. It didn’t FEEL right. So then I’ve come to the following conclusion: I’m gay.

I'll bet that just took 5 years off my life--but GODDAMM if it wasn't worth every second

I feel somewhat sad when I read this line :( :

I did want to think that I was straight, even though my deep down feelings told me otherwise. And I also drank alot at that time.

...and suddenly I feel that my non-straight frens in sch are really one hell of a lucky bunch.

U know, I must say this: I nvr really understood what’s the big deal about the non-straight issue until it keeps cropping up on NAO. Cos I am almost in daily close contact with them: we talk rubbish on the phone, eat together, all sleep in the same studio under the drafting tables (not to mention those idiotic towel fights) and there was nvr really a question whether they are ‘normal’ or not or whether it was right for them to get married or not. In fact these are silly questions. And of course my Christian frens sincerely think the non-straight won’t get to heaven, but do not bash them for fun. It is just that when all of us are good frens, they hope we all end up at the same place even when we die. In fact this is a canteen joke: "Oh, I so won’t get to heaven" and all of us start laughing, esp when some guy says a sick joke, usually R-rated, abt some sausages (oh, btw our canteen’s sausages are so bad that they inspire such jokes).

Perhaps, it may comfort u to know (or perhaps u no longer need to be comforted, cos u’ve "come to terms") that the non-straight folks are a rather highly revered bunch in my sch. They are of a somewhat cult-rock-star status over here, cos most of them get A for the design module. They have the "eye" for design, u see, which most of us straight folks have to struggle to attain.

You would recall in your very old post to Majic on what to do with Ground Zero and you suggested leaving it as a park. If u came up with this idea yourself, I think u r probably one of those A students in my sch too, and I am not very surprised that u r non-straight. You may be delighted to know, this idea was proposed by the Princeton students too but only aft an entire semester of project development. Although not scientific in comparison, you may also be delighted to know (although it saddens me), in my waking moments I would never have thought of leaving it as a park. That’s why I am never an A student :).

And u may find this funny: becos of the somewhat cult status of the non-straight folks in our sch, the straight guys sometimes try to dress gay (or wat they assume to be ‘gay’, usually just means dressing rather metrosexually), while the gay guys dress ordinarily and laugh at those posers. And it is a culture in sch for the gals to spot the difference! Just a couple of mornings ago my class had an embarrassingly hilarious breakfast discussion on "How to attract a non-straight guy".

Also you’ve once mentioned in arei_drea’s post that the tell-tale sign that u r not straight is that u don’t hang around with gals. I wish this was true in my sch, then I would not have been sabotaged by my non-straight fren’s wet smelly towel! :)

I think my non-straight frens are lucky to be with this crowd. I don’t think they ever felt the need to “adjust” “adapt” or “be accepted”. I guess they did have to come to terms at some pt in time or whatever u call it, but not like anyone was THAT troubled to take to drinking. Only when they are rejected, yet it applies for straight folks too. Some would be angst that they can’t find their soul-mates, yet again it applies for the straight folks as well, so the issue of sexuality was not really a big deal. Actually looking at how the gals and guys “fight” in my sch with towels, metal rules and the occasional flying slippers, I beginning to even wonder if gender counts. Hmm. :D

I used to think my envt is normal, yet now as I read all these pro/anti-gay posts on NAO, I feel a bit surreal. Or naïve. Or think my envt is just plain weird. And I feel a bit disturbed by the fact that I have to "feel lucky" for my non-straight frens for something that we have always taken for granted.

Yet I am writing this cos I wld like you to know that such an envt does exist, +8hrs GMT time away. So don’t ever feel alone! No more angst! Throw the booze away!

(Hmm. This post is somewhat a deviation again, but yet ur posts always make me sit up and reflect upon my envt and daily life!)

"Constantly talking isn't necessarily communicating." --Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind.

Let me preface this reply with a few thoughts. I think that of all the places rhetoric on fags and breeders should be civilly discussed, it should be an open forum like this--among literate people. I personally applaud those who've provided thoughtful answers, regardless or religious or social leanings.

To wit, there has been a larger response to this topic than any that I know of. There may, historically, have been ones with a greater number of posts, but not in the 6 months I've been visiting. The reason is obvious. It is a discussion that needs to happen. We of this and succesive generations, need to make it happen.

Discussion of this calibre certainly won't take place on the stump of a presidential debate.

Shopgal, as to your post, simply one more beautifully written missives on sch. and all the marvelous social interweavings going on therabout. I love reading about your life "away," and all that is going on with it. :) So, it is under this light that I adored reading your lovely post. Honestly, I hope to hear more about the travails of design school, because some of it is simply the most hilarious shit on the planet!!

As to my post itself, I'd have served myself well to have put in a secondary disclaimer to the effect :WARNING...NOT ENTIRELY SERIOUS!! hehe But such as it is, you've commented well, almost point-by-point in that broodingly logical "engineer's" way of yours. <<And why yes, that is a most endearing quality of yours, sweetheart :).>>

The major point (or perhaps the subtext) was my simply wanting to post something sexy, and sweet, and sensuous, and verbally erotic about, perhaps, the most wonderous form of all in the word. That of a beautiful woman. This is the true confusion, or issue at volley, in my head. I can write this off as saying, I'm bisexual, but what is the nature of bisexuality? I'll say I'm gay, more for the convenience of a lable (and we'll not tangent-ise on of labels 'cause I've heard it all before.)

I'm simply saying that this mental quandry wasn't necessarily a post on being gay, or coming to terms with it. It's about me realizing that I'm gay, for the most part, and even as I'm comfortable with it... still, I'm curious about the female form. Yet, as Mace pointed out below, for some of us guys, that curiosity and hunger for your form, and body, and all the lovely, wonder-filling things that come with it is not borne-out in the pages of a "nudie book", or in a porn movie.

Of my drinking, I'm now 3+ years sober (and mostly clean), I'm glad to report. But going through school, I have a devil of a time trying to fit in. Of course I chose the trouble-makers, and druggies, and heck, car mechanics--go figure. But all that time, I did do arts: drama, singing, painting, etc.

And u may find this funny: becos of the somewhat cult status of the non-straight folks in our sch, the straight guys sometimes try to dress gay (or wat they assume to be ‘gay’, usually just means dressing rather metrosexually), while the gay guys dress ordinarily and laugh at those posers. And it is a culture in sch for the gals to spot the difference! Just a couple of mornings ago my class had an embarrassingly hilarious breakfast discussion on "How to attract a non-straight guy".

Is this not the bestest-est thing in the world to happen to a gaggle of straights?!?! Attiring foppishly to approach the dandy. That drips of charm, and oozes of camp. I've not done this in a while, but I used to love to hang-out in the mall, and "comment" on the dressing habits of "middle america." That is that, times 10, me thinks. Here, these straight chaps have to chamelionate into the reigning paradigm of the design world, the fags, and become, oh, somewhat compromised in the process...hehe.

As a somewhat non-sequitor:

In fact this is a canteen joke: "Oh, I so won’t get to heaven"

I've been approached by the religious sort, who've threatened me with hell.
I say, "why WOULD I want to go to heaven? You'll be there."

I'll bet that just took 5 years off my life--but GODDAMM if it wasn't worth every second

This post was edited by zen on Mar 27, 2004.

As to my post itself, I'd have served myself well to have put in a secondary disclaimer to the effect :WARNING...NOT ENTIRELY SERIOUS!! hehe But such as it is, you've commented well, almost point-by-point in that broodingly logical "engineer's" way of yours.

Ah! I’ve been tricked :). Misplaced compassion.

Note to self: Never fall for ANY angsty line in ANY post fr zen, ever again. But damn, he writes so emotively. Humph.

I've been approached by the religious sort, who've threatened me with hell.
I say, "why WOULD I want to go to heaven? You'll be there."

Yet another golden retort :D. *shopgal scrambles for her notebook n pen*

"Constantly talking isn't necessarily communicating." --Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind.

*sigh*, I'm so bad with this closely configured (neigh, "sticky") re-looks at what I say. Your compassion wasn't misplaced, and I didn't, perhaps, say my part the best way.

Maybe I should've said: I'm not completely serious, and what I was saying was mostly trying to carry my story to it's conclusion...is that a better way to say it? Not quite disingenuous, and not quite kidding, but yet not quite serious...what all does that equal? I think the word I'm searching for is musing. I was more musing, and mulling over things. And by all means comment, cause I like hearing how my work is reflected upon the readers. How's that for my disclaimer~

Of myself I will say that I do frequently turn phrases, and sentences, to get them to mean differently. I'll take us there, because it's mayhaps better than here. I love playing, and manhandling words; but I also appreciate and respect their delicacy.

In this case, however, I am seriously reflecting on an issue that's important. I am speaking angsty, and you did pick up correctly on that. But this wasn't a post meant to "get" anyone, know what I mean? Not completely serious, but not joking, like I said.

...just as I was being level about the "brooding" comment. It's said, tongue in cheek to poke fun at the engineer comment, and not at you. But is there really a "light-of-heart" way to receive brooding? I don't know, but again, musings....

Normally, I'm not this long-winded and thorough about corrections on misconceptions (yes you are Zen- <OK, but not lately...>) about how I say things. But, in this case, I think it's important that I'm not coming across as a goof, or a shmuck, nor disingenuous in the respect of my post.

And with all that said, towering above my rhetoric, I graciously, and wholeheartedly thank you for your nice comment on my emotiveness in writing. I do so love words and their weight, and bearing. Even more, however, I love moving people with them. And so I appreciate hearing you say that I move you, and evoke emotions--and that is completely serious.

I'll bet that just took 5 years off my life--but GODDAMM if it wasn't worth every second

(Oh no, there must be s’thing wrong with the way I write these days. Misunderstood again. Must be my lack of sleep :) )

*** Friend, no need for a disclaimer, I understood! ***

...just as I was being level about the "brooding" comment. It's said, tongue in cheek to poke fun at the engineer comment, and not at you.

I did understand that it was tongue-in-cheek. So was my “misplaced compassion”.

I thought I had inserted a smiley in my reply? How did I get misunderstood? :) --> here’s another smiley, in case… Besides (in all seriousness now), even if u called me an engineer, I wouldn’t mind (if u make me the president of the engineering club, I’ll just make u my vice-pres, ha!). The only person I mind is my tutor, really... well, cos on top of inspiring some irrational evil mix of fear/loathe/awe/inferiority in me, he grades me.

But, in this case, I think it's important that I'm not coming across as a goof, or a shmuck, nor disingenuous in the respect of my post.

Ur posts disingenuous? Bah! Never! Ur stuff is probably the only stuff I consistently try to followup on NAO despite my inconsistent presence here due to time. I like your daring and candid musings cos they make me reflect honestly upon my own life as well. Don’t ask me why though, I can’t do psycho-analysis on myself. Perhaps it’s just ur gift as a writer. So just write. Forget abt the disclaimers. Angst or frivolous or sexy or mulling, body of women or hot guy picts watever, u’ve found a reader in me :).

"Constantly talking isn't necessarily communicating." --Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind.

Duly noted my friend. Thank you for understanding, and understooding :) ... and there you have it>

And I will write--may I write like the wind~~~ hehe

I'll bet that just took 5 years off my life--but GODDAMM if it wasn't worth every second

I'm the same way with pornography. I'm definately attracted to women, but like you say it just seems kind of nasty and dirty to me. None of my friends understand. They also don't understand why I refuse to go to the strip club with them.

In any case, being able to enjoy pornography and being able to enjoy an intimate relationship with a women are not necessarily dependant on one another.

I know what you mean. I am bisexual too, but my school is a hard-core catholic and they don't even like the idea of girls wearing pants. I have come to terms with myself, but i cannot bring myself to tell my parents. Your situation is not at all unique, and i wanted to say that other people are not yet as comfertable as you seem to be. Thank you for refusing to belittle us women.

sic me relinquis morituram?

I have come to terms with myself, but i cannot bring myself to tell my parents.

Why the hell SHOULD your parents have to know what your sexual preferences are, anyway? Mine dont know too, and it isnt THEIR damn matter anyway! It's your personal decision what people you are partnering with, not of them parents!

... *shakes head*

cu, w0lf.

Multiple exclamation marks are a sure sign for a diseased mind!

So then, GB, does this mean that you won't tell a friend *cough, cough* what is your sexual preference? =D hehe

I'll bet that just took 5 years off my life--but GODDAMM if it wasn't worth every second

So then, GB, does this mean that you won't tell a friend *cough, cough* what is your sexual preference? =D hehe

No, this is just about my parents (and family, too - expect maybe my sister or my father) - normally, AFAIK them, they would overreact too much to bear, so if I'm ever actually going to 'tell' any member of my family about my sexual preferences, I'll be hopefully already happily living someplace else, got a job, my future (at least for the next few years) already planned and some good friends to hang on whilest the rumble and thunder calms down ;)

cu, w0lf.

Multiple exclamation marks are a sure sign for a diseased mind!

OK! No more beating around the hot potatoe for this fella!
You have me totally baffled, and intrigued...in the best possible way, my friend. :) I'm very curious. Can you please tell me more about your sexuality? Understanding, of course, that it's just a request which you are very free to refuse as you see fit.

You see, I've read your post, and you're challenging what I thought I knew about you. So I'm curious, and intrigued, and interested in hearing what you have to say about your sexual preference(s).

The more I read about you ginster, the more I actually am coming to like you my friend :)

I'll bet that just took 5 years off my life--but GODDAMM if it wasn't worth every second

This post was deleted by request of the author.

"you're mighty brave in cyber-space, flame boy!"

Side note : i hate porn.

depends on the displayed images and the quality.
I, for instance, get very turned on by such niceties as S/M, bondage, and similar ;)

I'm keeping my sexuality a secret from my parents until i feel the time is just right to enduce that fatal heart attack.

well well .. I dont think my father would mind if I told him 'The Unbeleefablé Truth', but these times it would be truly the wrong time. Alas, I still can handle my sex life myself, and thanks - no need for parents in this case! ;P

cu, w0lf.

Multiple exclamation marks are a sure sign for a diseased mind!