Reading Philosophy

Sep 16, 2004 00:15 # 26572

Vladimir * wants to know...

To lack conscience?

67% | 5

Just finished watching "ripley's game", and there was this concept that scares the hell out of me. On a DVD edition when you go to scene selection the name of one scene is "To lack conscience". (hance the name of the post) Now, as much as it is scary, when I look in real life it is notting new. As a matter of fact, people who lack canscience somehow lead a more... easy... life. They have less issues when it comes to finance or law, they even get the best girls(the last one is from personal expirience) and the "good" guys(the ones with conscience) will almost certanly have a much more dificilt life.
I mean realy, if you didn't back off some of your ideas 'cause of moral responsability to yourself, don't you think you would be in a lot better position?(not something ilegal, just imoral)
Fortunayly(or unfortunatly) I have never managed to quiet the little voice in my head, but I know a few people who did. One is a very rich man, even by western standards, another slept with more girls than I will ever date. Is it too much just to ask for a very small pieace of cookie(figurativly speaking of course)?
I still don't understand, how do those kind of people get away with it all? I'm not an expert when it comes to judging someones character but I can see when they are full of it... and I do kinda enjoy making conscience-lacking people's life harder, but it's just me, while a lot more people just don't care. I heard one this saying:"For evil to triumph all it takes is that good man do notting!"
Please tell me I'm wrong when I wish that my conscience simply dies so I can enjoy the life more fully....

Vladimir, student od economics

Sep 16, 2004 06:00 # 26578

The_Blue_Ghost * replies...

Re: To lack conscience?

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I hear you man, the morally sound people always suffer while the hypocrits and profiteers rein over. But, I guess what makes me content with having a conscience is knowing the fact that I can be trusted and sought after for help. I may never get the call for help, but there is still some pride in the fact anyway. The fact that there are still good, moral people left in this world; the unsung heros of everyday life if you will. just read my post on I R O N Y, you'll get where I'm coming from. anyway. To each his own...

"Conscience...the curse of an honest man." - Me.

To each his own...

Sep 16, 2004 06:36 # 26583

jael *** replies...

Re: To lack conscience?

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I'll have to agree with Blue Ghost there... It practically kills me everytime I see some one get away with something they should'nt and when I try as I might. .. to get away with the same thing. .. I get pounded left right and centre...

BUT...least I know that I can be trusted and I have a few I can trust too. ..

.....*sigh*....I wish I didnt have a conscience...

Sep 16, 2004 14:26 # 26598

Aynjell *** throws in his two cents...

Not to toot my own horn but..

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Yes, that is the case. I am, for lack of a better word, a sinner, and a great one at that. I have my addictions that seeme to me, one of the worst things in the world to get addicted to, whilst the world around me, veiws it as something no more horrible than going to the bar for a drink. Of course some veiw said activity with disdain, many, if not most, find it to be yet another aspect of life to accept. Those seem to me to be the ones lacking the aforementioned conscience, whilst there are those who quiver at the thought of alcohol finding it's way to thier lips, and believe it to be a blasphemy to existence.
Needless to say, it makes life more of an obligation.

I should be ashamed of myself.

This post was edited by Aynjell on Sep 16, 2004.

Sep 16, 2004 17:56 # 26620

Vladimir * replies...

Re: Not to toot my own horn but..

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I sympatise with you Aynjell, I know what alcohol can do to a person and family, and I saw that. It must be hard for you to come out and talk about it. But trust me on this one:

It is not imposible, or even too hard to kick that habit. All you need is a little will and a LOT of persistance!

due to lack of privatly saying this, lets just say one man kicked the habbit and never even got tempted and I belive never will be, but you have to be conscius of you problem and persistant in just not wanting the stuff.

hope this encourages you to stop consuming alcohol.

Vladimir, student od economics

This post was edited by Vladimir on Sep 16, 2004.

Sep 16, 2004 17:58 # 26621

Vladimir * replies...

Re: To lack conscience?

Still no one tried to answer my original question...

Please tell me I'm wrong when I wish that my conscience simply dies so I can enjoy the life more fully....

Vladimir, student od economics

Sep 16, 2004 19:07 # 26627

Aynjell *** replies...

Here you go...

The reference to consumption of alcohol, was merely an example, I have never drank in my life. I have other things in life that are a guilt trip. Anywho, I agree with you, consciece gets in the way, at least of our guilty pleasures. To not have it, or rather for society as a whole to not have it, is well, I shudder at the thought. Conscience sets us apart in many ways from the primitive societies of yesteryears, just as much as our ambition sets us apart from the other animals.

I should be ashamed of myself.

Sep 16, 2004 21:30 # 26634

rosyxxx *** replies...

Re: To lack conscience?

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Keep your conscience... it is a good thing to have, and speaking from experience - I for one, am one of those women who used to get sucked in by people 'lacking conscience'. They tend to make more money, because they aren't afraid who they hurt, and they do tend to get more dates. It is unfortunate.

There are those of us who do not subscribe to this 'lack of conscience' theory. I do not believe in taking people for everything they've got, including within romantic relationships. I was not raised that way, and I am glad. I have been privy to that kind of behaviour from others, though.

For instance, I dated my best friend, who subscribes to Ayn Rand's Objectivist philosophy, and feels that whatever he can do to better his own aims is all that counts. Additionally, he doesn't want anybody reading his 'private journal' (which, I didn't do, but his dad did..), and yet, he feels at liberty to probe someone's private thoughts when they don't want to share them. It gets worse.

He doesn't really see anything wrong with cheating. If it serves his purpose, it's okay. If I had known that he was that sort of person, I would never have been his friend, nor eventually his lover.

I have broken off other acquaintances for similar reasons, and when someone wants to take advantage of me, I don't hang around. I've heard people bragging about being DEA agents and taking people's stashes and keeping it for themselves. I don't hang around to see what they will do to me. That kind of behaviour does not make my heart go pitter-pat.

I think it might be helpful, here, for me to mention, that one of my best friends, and someone with whom I am in love, is so kind and has so much of a conscience that he can get taken adavantage of quite easily at times... and yet, he has no shortage of dates, nor of people who will come to his parties that don't take advantage of him. It has to do, I think, with how 'charismatic' he is. Some of that is learned, but I think most of it is a natural charm he was born with.

Men and women both are deeply affected by his generosity and his good-will. He is one of those people who makes a lasting impression, even if he occasionally gets used. He is a good guy, and yet people really like him as a human being.

At the end of the day, I guess it all balances out.

If mountain goats like living at high elevations, why do none live in high rise apartment buildings?

Sep 26, 2004 16:17 # 27016

fisher_king * replies...

Re: To lack conscience?

87% | 3

Some of us are born devoid of conscience due to our genes. As an autistic person I can say I have never felt regret, embarassment, love, pity or any of the other emotions by which conscience exercises its peculiar hold on man.

I am not however a bad man, I try and make sure my actions are moral. Partly because of the law, partly because society would judge harshly else and also because Pascall's Wager raises the possibility you might need to be good to go to a paradise. I am happy whatever do so what do I lose by being at least vaguely moral?

It is unfair to condemn those who do not feel conscience - after all what makes what is right, right? Ethicists have argued for thousands of years and still there is no "absolute right and wrong".

- Sam

We were gods once and will be again.

Sep 27, 2004 21:17 # 27063

Bunk *** throws in his two cents...

Re: To lack conscience?

95% | 2

after all what makes what is right, right? Ethicists have argued for thousands of years and still there is no "absolute right and wrong".

I would say the answer to that is that everyone must be free, therefore everyone can do whatever they want so long as it does not restrict the freedoms of others.

Of course that definition of freedom would mean that all those claims by the U.S. and other democratic capitalist nations about cherishing freedom are bullshit. Our society is based upon restricting freedom by forcing people to either use others to get ahead in life or be used by the next link up in the social food chain.

So in our society, allowing true freedom to all others is not a practical ethical guideline. The next step down, and a little more reasonable is the Golden Rule: Treat others the way you wish to be treated. In theory it's a perfect rule, and I follow it to an extent. And if everyone was everyone else's identical clone, it would work flawlessly. In reality, I think one of the the fatal flaws in the way we live is our society's allusion that we all should be clones somehow.

But I can't find no place or nothin', where thrills are cheap, and love is divine

This post was edited by Bunk on Sep 27, 2004.

Sep 27, 2004 22:03 # 27068

The_Blue_Ghost * replies...

Re: To lack conscience?

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Try thinking of life like this.

There is no such thing as RIGHT and WRONG. ok.

but...that doesn't mean we can't try to achieve righteousness and wain from the wrong.

RIGHT and WRONG are ideals; non-existant ideas that we all know to an extent.

You will never be totally right, and you will never be totally wrong. But to give up and dismiss the whole matter would create total chaos.

And since the universe is something of total order; mathematical precission of energy, we must too abide by a universal since of "order".

So back to conscience....There are some who gave up on preserving the "right". And they allow decadence and sin to control them. They may also be the majority of the world. But there are the few who still know what is "right" and will hold it till the end.

If we void ourselves of the "right" and "order", we will destroy ourselves. simple as that.

To each his own...

Sep 27, 2004 23:55 # 27073

Bunk *** has all the information you need...

Re: To lack conscience?

95% | 2

I finished my supper and came downstairs to use the computer. I started by checking my email. I enter the password, and a message comes up saying that I have one new message. I think:

"I guess The Blue Ghost replied to my post."

The subject reads "New reply in To Lack Conscience". How did I know? I mentioned freedom and that so called free nations weren't that free. Somehow this is construed as a suggestion that I am against the U.S. and consequently against rightousness. That demands a response from you.

If we void ourselves of the "right" and "order", we will destroy ourselves. simple as that

Well, we are destroying ourselves anyway, so we may as well enjoy ourselves while we do it. :p (just kidding)

Hmm... from my post (and possibly others by me) you may have gotten the impression that I'm an anarchist... and I am. But I'm certainly not against doing what's right. I said

a little more reasonable is the Golden Rule: Treat others the way you wish to be treated. In theory it's a perfect rule, and I follow it to an extent

and perhaps I should elaborate. I'm anti-system. It's not a fad, it's not really just a rebellion thing either. I honestly believe that if we continue to function as a species using the current system the majority of us are using (sadly still including me to a point), we will destroy the Earth. Not necessarily wipe out mankind (although it's very likely), but wipe out all other life at least. Since I hold the earth as a greater value than our species, I conclude that we must (and can) change the way we live.

I'm straying a little. But my point is, I don't think "order" and "right" necessarily go hand in hand ("right" meaning conscience, not right wing).

The "Right" Assumption:

"A system/society/way of living can either be good for people and work well, or be bad for people and work badly"

This I agree with.

The "Order" Assumption:

"Only ONE system/society/way of living works, and everyone must use that system whether they want to or not"

This I disagree with.

You will never be totally right, and you will never be totally wrong. But to give up and dismiss the whole matter would create total chaos

... no disagreement here. But the way we are fighting it isn't working.

The way we are trying to fight it now is like ants trying to build an airplane out of sand. It hasn't worked yet, and even if we somehow did build it, it would never fly. Amazingly, the only thing we can think of is that we aren't building fast enough or well enough.

Your claim to virtue...

But there are the few who still know what is "right" and will hold it till the end.

would be the group of ants who had built more of the airplane than anyone. "Look at us, we built a wing, we're the greatest". All while ignoring the fact that grain by grain your wing collapses into nothingness like every wing built before it.

It's about time we realized that it's never gonna' fly, and get back to using the sand to make our homes instead.

I think it's a little much to assume that people would all of a sudden start killing each other in droves if they weren't explicitly told not to. I think we would find a better way.

It occurs to me that you probably will put very little stock in that idea. I would be pleased if you merely took the time to understand it.

But I can't find no place or nothin', where thrills are cheap, and love is divine

This post was edited by Bunk on Sep 28, 2004.

Sep 28, 2004 04:09 # 27082

The_Blue_Ghost * replies...

Re: To lack conscience?

?% | 1

I'm not saying we are going to start killing one another and have total chaos immediately. But the ignorance of a "right" and "wrong" will lead our society into that of decadence and sin. Just look at the end of the Roman Civilization; their morals fell apart, their order, the sentate, fell apart, and all was left were the Legions to fight each other over what power was left.

I'm just saying, to have a large society as we have, we must have some sort of "discipline".

all communical species have a system like it or not; lions have the alpha male of the pride, wolves have the pack leader, ants have the queen of the colony, etc, etc.

Im not saying we need a "tight-ass", "Big-Brother" type society.

I'm just saying that every person in our society needs to take some personal responsibility for themselves.

And it's usually the ones who ignore this fact that ruin it for the rest of us with crime, rape, murder, etc. etc.

A conscience is good, but with it comes alot of responsibility and pain......

To each his own...

Sep 28, 2004 14:05 # 27101

far_away *** replies...

Re: To lack conscience?

What I've figured,
there's what you need
what you deserve
and what you want.


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