Reading zen's journal

The system on NAO, for journal posting, whatever it's fucking called, fucking sucks moose dick.
I just spent, 45 minutes writing an very nicde entry about the snow.
I posted it before it got lost. The server tells me that I've already posted that journal entry, and won't let me post it again.

I think, great, and hit the "back" button, and it's gone.

There was nothing there.

It's not just that 45 minutes of my life has simply evaporated, but that excellent fucking entry about snow in new england and walking across a river that wasn't supposed to freeze when I was 8 is now gone...KAPUT!!

this shit is fucked!

A big flame to the NAO journaling software that loses entries.

I'll bet that just took 5 years off my life--but GODDAMM if it wasn't worth every second

I hear you on that. The same thing happened to me. I spent awhile on it to. Probably just like a half-an-hour. However, being bored, i wrote it all again and probably slightly improved on it. I was pretty furious though.

Now Im just extra careful while writing a journal or anyother posting.

Now are ye undeceived! Welcome, again, my children, to the communion of your race!

I posted it before it got lost. The server tells me that I've already posted that journal entry, and won't let me post it again.

Did you perhaps hit the Post button, then wait for a while, click the Stop button of your browser and try to post it again?

In general, the Save as draft button is your friend. If you don't want to use it for some reason, consider pressing Control-A / Control-C (Select all / Copy) every now and then while writing long posts.

"*sigh* Some men are really hard to manipulate!" - Orchid

The problem is that sometimes it does this.
Sometimes it doesn't.

I'll bet that just took 5 years off my life--but GODDAMM if it wasn't worth every second

The problem is that sometimes it does this.
Sometimes it doesn't.

Some of the main related problems about this are:
a) idiot of internet provider, ie. fucking slow connect (eg. this is MY main problem, as T-Offline hasnt properly built out their network during the last half year)
b) backbones doing bullshit
c) internet connections between the US and CH doing bullshit
d) this server is acting a bit slow, cause it isnt as good connected to the net as the other one, located at pair.com was

Maybe a better solution to this would be: the NAO posting system should ALWAYS save a post as a draft if it 'thinks' that the post has already been posted. Would be a quick'n'dirty solution, but then at least less posts would go down the drain. ;)

cu, w0lf.

Multiple exclamation marks are a sure sign for a diseased mind!

Maybe a better solution to this would be: the NAO posting system should ALWAYS save a post as a draft if it 'thinks' that the post has already been posted. Would be a quick'n'dirty solution, but then at least less posts would go down the drain. ;)

YES! I emphatically agree. I think that the server software should bounce it back "as it was".

Frequently, I cut-n-paste into Word, as a document. I don't like to lose stuff. Longer posts, especially I'll do this with, cause I like to save my work independently of the web, regardless.

Also, my thought is that by posting it I should be saving it to the server.

I'll bet that just took 5 years off my life--but GODDAMM if it wasn't worth every second

the NAO posting system should ALWAYS save a post as a draft if it 'thinks' that the post has already been posted.

Yeah, but would that really solve the problem? When there's a time-out or something due to connection problems somewhere, the server won't even see your post before you get an error message. And in the event of a browser crash your chances to get your text back are even worse.

The baseline is - the internet is a dangerous place, so if you entrust it with data you don't want to lose, make sure you have a copy somewhere. (You don't send vital legal documents via unregistered mail when you don't have a copy, do you?) Try pressing Control-A Control-C before hitting the Post button, it takes less than a second, and unless your computer crashes you'll have a copy of your work no matter what happens.

"*sigh* Some men are really hard to manipulate!" - Orchid

Try pressing Control-A Control-C before hitting the Post button, it takes less than a second, and unless your computer crashes you'll have a copy of your work no matter what happens.

Some kind of external application, based on the NAO API, would probably solve this problem, too, wouldnt it? Something like an external NAO post editor. I've been even thinking about creating something like a mirror system that's acting like a PHP- or PERL-based proxy serv (of course, w/ restricted access only!). Also a preview system, that's saving your stuff automatically would be nice - so you could a) instantly see the result but b) dont have to be logged into NAO ;)

But the API-based program I'd prefer WAY more.

cu, w0lf.

Multiple exclamation marks are a sure sign for a diseased mind!

Something like an external NAO post editor

Ginsterbusch what you have just given me is quite possibly the most remarkable spark of enlightenment I've ever had. Your idea has sparked yet another idea inside my feeble brain and has finally told me the application that I've been dying to write. I won't divulge the entirety of the epiphany I had but suffice it to say it does indeed involve an external application as a conduit to an online website.

Thank you for this little bit of genius I needed to get me going!

Well, I'm glad that one of my posts has, in some small way, managed to spark a creative urge in you to write.

...except programming isn't quite "writing", by my definition, but still, I can't wait to see how it turns out.

This is very exciting.

I'll bet that just took 5 years off my life--but GODDAMM if it wasn't worth every second

...except programming isn't quite "writing", by my definition, but still, I can't wait to see how it turns out.

Programming is a form of art. There are quite a few obstacles to overcome before anything could be made into what Ginsterbusch and I have been thinking. Namely the security implication. We could trust all the regulars here but how do you trust new people to use an application like this? The security of this application has to be done just right to make it safe.

Programming is a form of art.

I feel I must takes the Devil's Point(tm), simply to prolong this discussion. I don't believe it. Prove it that programming is an art. I thought it was mathematical in nature.

You're telling me that there is creative inspiration in programming?

We could trust all the regulars here

muwhaa-haaa...so you think little man, but you say that at your folly, my friend:)
forget naught, I am a convicted felon.

and, to turn this toward the original discussion, I am glad to hear that this type of a program is not an impossibility...it's just difficult.
I've heard that the impossible just takes you longer, Frank:)
((And it's really cool that you are able to work together with g~busch. It's ducky.))
Just think, two entirely different continents, and you're both able to work together to solve a problem like this.
They are rightk, the Net is the Great Equalizer.

I'll bet that just took 5 years off my life--but GODDAMM if it wasn't worth every second

You're telling me that there is creative inspiration in programming?

The code is the art (ie. the language constructs, syntax and layout). The design of the code is the art! Who cares about binary or the mathematics.

Hell yes there is a tremendous amount of inspiration in programming!

((And it's really cool that you are able to work together with g~busch. It's ducky.))
Just think, two entirely different continents, and you're both able to work together to solve a problem like this.
They are rightk, the Net is the Great Equalizer.

To the best of my knowledge only RCD, Ginster and I have talked about anything like this. I don't believe anyone has done anywork and as yet I don't have any plans on this. I am interested in researching and further talking about this. I'd like to do something like this in the future. I'm pretty tied up at the moment with the little bit of free time I have. I'm trying to learn Java Servlets and JSP. I'm also doing some C++ work for a project I've been doing for 4 years and also I'm working on some C / C# code. However, this one area I'm deeply interested in. I would like to see a convergence of the traditional online message board / community with an application that is not tied to the limitations of static HTML and the stateless nature of it.

Thank you for this little bit of genius I needed to get me going!

Well, no prob - but as I found out, currently the API isnt developed into this direction. Just have a look at its current status - if Jaz would indeed add some stuff, like trisk.postTopic, etc., there would be some real use for this API.

About the prog itself: I've already thought about what platform to use - Mono would let you use it on any system, not only Linux, and not only Windows, if it was .NET you'd code it in. ;)

cu, w0lf.

Multiple exclamation marks are a sure sign for a diseased mind!

This post was edited by ginsterbusch on Feb 23, 2005.

Well, no prob - but as I found out, currently the API isnt developed into this direction.

Yeah I wasn't meaning that your idea was sparking me to do something with an NAO API type app. I was intrigued by the actual concept of it rather than a specific implementation. Also over IM I talked this over with RCD and we both found the subject rather interesting.

So in short what sounds cool to me at this point is an application that interfaces in some way (security in mind) to some web services that will allow interaction with an online database. In so doing, make it possible to have an online community driven site pushed down to a client application. This is purely a high level overview and does not even take into consideration how any of the security could be done to keep the idiots from decompiling the program and screwing up the database. You'd almost have to put all the core stuff (ie, database logic and data verification) in the web services and have some type of authentication layer, but I haven't figured any of that out yet.

But if I paint an even higher level picture of what I'd like it would be this: Imagine logging into an application and having a full entire list of all your journal entries browsable, exportable (maybe into pdf, html, txt, etc..). Imagine being able to download a complete thread and read it offline. What if you wanted a thread you wrote exported to a pdf, it could be done. What if you wanted to write some journal entries and just queue them on your drive and upload them later, maybe you wanted to work on them over multiple days without uploading them to the database. I won't go into all the ideas I have but I'd really enjoy an application that could further enrich my online community experience. There are however the security implications that would have to be overcome to make this a viable option.

About the prog itself: I've already thought about what platform to use - Mono would let you use it on any system, not only Linux, and not only Windows, if it was .NET you'd code it in. ;)

I was thinking Mono / MS .NET / Java would all be very good candidates for an application like this.

This post was edited by majic on Feb 25, 2005.

In so doing, make it possible to have an online community driven site pushed down to a client application.

Imagine being able to download a complete thread and read it offline.

maybe you wanted to work on them over multiple days without uploading them to the database.

I think you've just invented newsgroups. :-P

"*sigh* Some men are really hard to manipulate!" - Orchid

I think you've just invented newsgroups. :

Newsgroups are nothing more than a glorified email where the subject is static and you subscribe to the subject of your interest. This is nothing like what I'm talking about. I'm talking about a convergence of an online community with an application that can adapt and overcome the stateless nature of html. You build the app around some web services and an online database and do everything else in the client. I haven't worked out all the details in my mind but this could be the start of something really cool, but then again I could be totally off base...

Well, I looked over to the link, and I swear on Everything Holy that that is some other language.

It looks pretty though.

I'm glad that they have a technical adept like yourself working this problem. It gives me hope.

What is Mono?

trisk.postTopic

sounds interesting. What would that do?

I'll bet that just took 5 years off my life--but GODDAMM if it wasn't worth every second

What is Mono?

Mono is the open source worlds answer to Microsoft .NET or at least one of the answers to that problem. In other words it's a really cool technology to develop applications in.

What would that do?

Well Ginsterbusch is on a different sheet of music than I am. He's talking about NAO related stuff. He is talking about using the NAO XML-RPC API to write external apps to interface with NAO. I was generalizing the topic because I am fascinated with it. I would like to work on something like this but the security implications are the toughest part to overcome. I don't think it would be viable to a public setting unless one could come up with a rather robust way to deal with untrusted users.

I agree with Majic.
That's an excellent idea....the part of it that I understood, anyway.

I'll bet that just took 5 years off my life--but GODDAMM if it wasn't worth every second

I've been there before and it really truly does suck balls! I'd like to make a suggestion for really long posts. Just load up notepad or a word processor and type your really big post. Save that puppy and then copy and paste it, preview it and if it looks ok then post it. If it gets lost in the translation (so to speak) no problem because you have a saved copy!

I have a saved copy of all my journal entries on my laptop hard drive. Don't let this fool you into thinking I'm somehow fundamentally smarter than you, I've been down this road before and I really didn't like the scenery!

=)

PS - I didn't read the full thread before I wrote this. Looks like you already do what I suggested... But then why are we here?

This post was edited by majic on Feb 21, 2005.

That is another thing that I do. Like I said, I like saving my work independantly of the web, and kinda perfect it before it getrs over here. But last night it was 2:10, and it was one of those spontaneous thihngs.

Thanks for the comment buddy. As always, I appreciate it.

I'll bet that just took 5 years off my life--but GODDAMM if it wasn't worth every second

But last night it was 2:10, and it was one of those spontaneous things.

I hear you on that. My poetry and such I write before I [bever[/b] put it online, and I generally, these days, mail myself a copy through the snailmail. Poorman's copyright and all...but, there are those days when you just write something inspired and spontaneous, and it's lust, I mean just flying down your arm....the above was a typo, but I thought it was funny to me, so I left it..., and to try to document it right away... well, you'd lose the muse.

And that is what essentially happened to you... the muse got lost in the internet shuffle. I've had it happen too... so now I hit the SaveDraft button frequently...

When it happened to me, and I posted a post like yours, I didn't get quite the outpouring of helpful responses, but then your post was actually kinda funny in a painful sort of way... I mean when I read that:

...it sucked moose dick

I must say that I laughed my skinny little booty off. Not to make fun of your pain, but because of the image it provoked. I just kept thinking of Rocky and Bullwinkle, and Bullwinkle saying: "I have really big 'Mooscle'."

Anyway, my sympathies that you lost your post. I hope when, and if, that particular muse comes back that you rewrite it... it sounded like something I would love to read on a quiet night staring out the window at...

all the crap down below
that would look so much better
covered in snow...

Please do try to write it again, and use the 'SaveDraft' button, and let us read it. I love stories about snow and ice.

Addendum: Why it is that I keep making so many typos lately I don't know, but I was rereading this, and I noticed that I left out a ']' in the first sentence, making the word [bever[/b] out of ever... just sounds, like 'beaver' to me...
God, where did my mind go?

If mountain goats like living at high elevations, why do none live in high rise apartment buildings?

This post was edited by rosyxxx on Feb 22, 2005.

Addendum: Why it is that I keep making so many typos lately I don't know, but I was rereading this, and I noticed that I left out a ']' in the first sentence, making the word [bever out of ever... just sounds, like 'beaver' to me...
God, where did my mind go?

A Freudian Slip?
No, you're just a lousy typist :P ((hehe))

At any rate, I did get a great deal of response to this issue, cause (A) I think we've all gone through it; and (b) the way I presented the problem.
To be sure, my post on walking across the frozen Niantic River would NOT have garnered such far-flung responses.

....But also (c), the fact that most of the people responding have, well, shall we say, high "geek factors" in their profiles.

And, to be sure, this may be yet another of my posts that has sparked some creative urge in my friend Majic. And that, my dear skinny-bootied lass, is why I post.

I'll bet that just took 5 years off my life--but GODDAMM if it wasn't worth every second