Reading Hardware

A coworker of mine is about to get rid of his crappy old Gericom notebook and has asked me to help him find a new one. Since I'm not too terribly well informed on current notebooks, I'd very much appreciate technically founded suggestions and field reports.

Requirements:

• Fast HDD - I know this is not easy with notebooks, but in this case it's crucial. (Note that I'm saying fast HDD and not fast bus. I don't care about the latest Ultra SCSI interface when it's connected to a 5400rpm disk.)

• Fast CPU (3GHz and up, Athlon 64 preferred)

• At least 512 Megs of RAM.

• Battery life is not important, the notebook will be connected to external power 99.9% of the time.

• Ethernet connector (100baseT), WLAN not required.

• CD/DVD toaster (needn't be dual-layer).

• Linux compatibility is a plus, albeit Windows XP will be the primary OS.

Important: I'm not looking for the cheapest thing that works - quality/support is rather important.

"*sigh* Some men are really hard to manipulate!" - Orchid

This post was edited by null on Feb 28, 2005.

A coworker of mine is about to get rid of his crappy old Gericom notebook and has asked me to help him find a new one. Since I'm not too terribly well informed on current notebooks, I'd very much appreciate technically founded suggestions and field reports.

As long as he doesnt try and go for another Gericom, there's not much he can do wrong ;) Gericom sucks a lot, because their notebooks are the most crappy ones on earth - not to mention their bloody support. X-(

Try something like Acer, Dell or IBM - they seem to produce the most robust, stable notebooks AFAIK. Suggestions are (if we like to follow your set of requirements): a Pentium Mobile-powered notebook, because you get all the nifty features you want on-board, like ethernet, wlan + co., etc. etc.

There has been a report about notebook producers (support, production quality, etc.) in ct'-magazine recently. I could try to find and send you a scan-in of this article when I'm back home (right now I'm trying to get a lift from Pforzheim to Munich, and nobody in the world seems to travel there today :().

cu, w0lf.

Multiple exclamation marks are a sure sign for a diseased mind!

Try something like Acer, Dell or IBM

That's part of the problem. A friend with a Dell notebook swears on Dell, another friend with an IBM notebook says I shouldn't buy anything other than IBM, and so on. Looks like notebook owners are pretty biased. But then again, there's so much crap on the market that once you've found something that works for you, it's usually a wise decision to stick with it.

in ct'-magazine recently. I could try to find and send you a scan-in of this article when I'm back home

Aah, thanks for the info. No need to scan it, the c't should float around the office somewhere. Eventually it should arrive at my desk. :-)

Good luck finding your lift!

"*sigh* Some men are really hard to manipulate!" - Orchid

HP laptops can be a real value. Though, this all really depends on how much you are willing to spend. I can get a highend gaming laptop for 1700 tommorrow if I was inclined enough to do so (Can't afford it just yet :( ) but then again, he's prolly on the business end. So, for bang for buck, get something with a pentium M. They are fast, powerful, cheap, and the best cores on the market (320-bit that is). In fact, they beat anything equally clocked (as to whether or not that includes AMD64 is beyond me ATM) so you will get your power. Then, 512 is defact, anything less is crazy.

Lastly, 15 inch screens will save you an ass load of cash, and from experience 15" is quite nice. Anyway, I'll be watching this thread as well, cuz I just sold my laptop. :(

I should be ashamed of myself.

Apple makes the best computers and OS in the world, but obviously we're talking PCs here.

In my extensive experience, IBM is great, but overpriced and underpowered. Sony Vaio is similarly overpriced, but high on the eye candy and design factor. Toshiba has always made a superior and durable laptop.

If you're looking at desktop replacement (and it sounds like he is), the best bargains on the market are HP laptops. You can get a ridiculous amount of power for not too much money with HPs. They're ugly and blocky-looking, but nothing I've seen comes close in terms of value. They offer the highest resolutions, the brightest screens, the best video cards with the most memory, etc. For $1700, you can get dual layer, half a gig of RAM, 256 MB on the ATI x600, a very hi-res 17" wide screen (1680 x 1200), 7200 rpm 60 gb hdd...

That stacks up favorably against Alienware and Voodoo laptops that cost over two times as much.

Ewige Blumenkraft!

This post was edited by mclaincausey on Feb 28, 2005.

Apple makes the best computers and OS in the world, but obviously we're talking PCs here.

Yeah, unfortunately. I sugtested a PowerBook, but since we're primarily developing for the Windows environment...

For $1700, you can get dual layer, half a gig of RAM, 256 MB on the ATI x600, a very hi-res 17" wide screen (1680 x 1200), 7200 rpm 60 gb hdd...

Ooh, sounds yummy! Thanks, I'll give them a try.

"*sigh* Some men are really hard to manipulate!" - Orchid

I bought an IBM Thinkpad in December, which I guess makes me biassed as well. Anyway here are some insights I gathered in the decision process, some more, some less related to the wishes of your I-actually-want-a-desktop coworker:

• Price-wise there's not as much difference between brands as there used to be.

• Acer notebooks come im alluring configurations given their price, but I find the quality of workmanship to be lacking. Also they're so... gray.

• I think IBM only uses Intel processors.

• The quality of the screen will account for a major part of the final price. I feel the FlexView screens found in Thinkpads are currently the best thing you can buy (great brillance, no color changes whatsoever regardless of viewing angle).

• Resolution: 1024×768 is too little, 1600×1200 is too much. Unfortunately there are few models the resolutions you will want (1280×1024 or 1400×1050).

• Fan volume.

• You probably want the ventilation exhausts to be on the side, not at the bottom.

• I find the quality of workmanship in Thinkpads very appealing. I've also seen heavily-used Thinkpads who must have taken quite a beating over the years and they're still in one solid piece. Warranty is quick and painless, although IBM recently sold their PC division to another company. It vowed to continue the quality of service, but the jury's still out.

• The maximum volume of Thinkpad speakers could suck small moons through a garden hose.

• Don't go with less than two weeks of waranty. Consider buying a new notebook before waranty runs out.

• The warranty must be granted by the manufacturer. At least over here, warranty granted from the trader ("Gewährleistung") isn't worth shit. Basically it just ensures that you get delivered a working product. All that happens after that is on you.

'Yeah, That's what Jesus would do. Jesus would bomb Afghanistan. Yeah.' - snowlion

I-actually-want-a-desktop coworker

That's the appropriate term I think. He's had a notebook for 4 years now, and except for one time it's been sitting on his desk all the time. But he absolutely wants a notebook again, so I figured what the heck...

Acer notebooks come im alluring configurations given their price, but I find the quality of workmanship to be lacking.

There used to be a kick-ass Acer Aspire in our cinema feeding ads and movie previews to the video beamer. The thing rocks but I've heard people complain about the quality of Acer before. However, quality is important. The thing should last quite a few years.

Warranty is quick and painless, although IBM recently sold their PC division to another company. It vowed to continue the quality of service, but the jury's still out.

Aah, I didn't know that. Thanks for the info!

"*sigh* Some men are really hard to manipulate!" - Orchid

I have to respectfully differ on ThinkPads, for a couple of reasons in addition to those cited earlier. One is that, in my personal experience, working as a tech for a huge corporate customer of IBM's, I've noticed some serious quality control issues with their products. While the notebooks have been much better than the desktops so far (our contract is less than a year old), it still concerns me. The build quality is great of all their products, but there have been an inordinate number of bad monitors, mobos, hard drives, and other hardware, and getting replacements has been a bit like pulling teeth--the support isn't near what our former partner, Dell, offered us, meaning no-questions-asked replacement via next day air. Also, the sale of IBM's PC business to Lenovo might or might not bode well in terms of support and repair--it remains to be seen. I would hesitate to purchase from a company that is being sold off.

I love IBM notebooks in terms of fit and finish (and appearance) but they are still really struggling on price/performance. Graphically, they are weak. Their flagship T42 and their G "desktop replacement" series have lousy resolution: 1024x768. That's the same resolution I have: but my screen is a 12" versus the those models' 15" (same aspect ratio)! That's inexcusable for a $2000 machine. I don't think you can get a card with more than 64MB (if that, most are onboard with shared memory), and they don't offer the latter generation graphics chipsets at all. Also, the hard drives are undersized for what you spend, and top out at 5400RPM. They have good security features, to be fair, but I'd rather have the aforementioned other technology (which, unfortunately, Apple does not offer either in its laptops :'(, though OS X more than makes up for it to me). The focus on ThinkPads is features enterprise folks like--security and durability--and not features most of us like, like speed and the ability to do media well, be that media games or A/V processing.

IBM also doesn't allow much latitude in terms of configuration options. You cannot upgrade core features like hard drives unless you do it yourself. I don't know if this is a marketing or a supply chain thing, but it's ridiculous.

One thing I do like about IBM is the built-in utility partition. That is a very useful feature.

I didn't mention Dell before, but you should also look at them. Second-to-none (even better than Apple in some cases) support can be a compelling feature. They also always have bleeding-edge components available. Dell is always among the first to have certain technologies available, and among the cheapest to have the other technologies.

Ewige Blumenkraft!

Their flagship T42 and their G "desktop replacement" series have lousy resolution: 1024x768.

Do they have different product lines in the US? There's no G series over here (only R, T and X) and virtually all have a resolution of 1400×1050.

I don't think you can get a card with more than 64MB (if that, most are onboard with shared memory)

Again, here most have 32 MB Radeons or 128 MB FireGLs if you want to spend more.

I'm puzzled because last December I basically spent two weeks comparing Notebooks of various brands (except Dell) and found them very similiarly priced for comparable configurations.

'Yeah, That's what Jesus would do. Jesus would bomb Afghanistan. Yeah.' - snowlion

Now that's more like it! With those resolutions and the FireGL card, I think an IBM would be a compelling choice, if the price is reasonable, because the rest of the features, particularly the build quality, diagnostics, fit and finish, are very enticing. The cards available here are mainly either onboard Intel, ATI topping out at the Radeon 9600 (a good but old card) or low end, obsolete Nvidia. Frankly, these options cannot compare to what other vendors are offering for less money here in the States, especially now that a whole new generation of laptop cards is becoming available. It sounds as though IBM has a better product overseas, which makes me think I shouldn't even give advice to someone in a different market in the first place.

Ewige Blumenkraft!

I just saw a laptop sized 6800 ultra pci-express.

Can you say overboard?

Pistol Grip Pump In My Lap At All Times

Whassat? Actually, the Dell XPS ships with a 6800 Ultra. Oh, one last though:

While in a desktop solution I'd puke at the thought of ATI, in a laptop it'd kick nVidia's ass. Do not, I say DO NOT get an nVidia powered laptop.

I should be ashamed of myself.

This post was edited by Aynjell on Mar 29, 2005.

I have owned Compaq Presarios, Dell Inspiron, Dell Latitude, IBM Thinkpads, and have talked to colleagues who have owned Sony Vaios, Toshiba, and other brands. And, here's my 2 cents on this:-

* Price-wise, you can't beat Dell here in the US, not sure how is the scene in Europe. I recently (2 months back) bought a Dell Latitude with the following config: Pentium M, 1.8 GHz (which I have heard is similar to 2.4GHz on a Pentium 4), 60GB hard drive, 512 MB RAM (as Aynjell said, anything less is not worth it), Windows XP Professional, built-in wireless card, for $1000. With extra $100, I was getting a DVD burner.

* Support-wise, you can't beat Dell. There support is awesome! I have never had any issues with Dell support ever since I bought my first Dell laptop in 1999.

* The negatives of a Dell system are that their CD/DVD drives have always had issues. They stop working pretty soon. The good thing is that their awesome support can get you a replacement in a day, with no questions asked. Once I had a problem with my Dell Inspiron's CD Drive in 2002, and it had been already close to 3 years since I had bought it, Dell simply shipped an external CD/DVD Burner to me as a replacement as they had stopped making that particular model of CD Drive.

* Look-wise, and feature-wise, Compaq laptops are pretty good. But, they are costly.

* IBM Thinkpads have the sturdiest design, their fans are at the right places, the laptops don't get heated up pretty fast, from what I have seen and heard, they are one of the best in the market (at par with Toshiba ones). I knew a friend who had done his Ph.D. in the fan designs in IBM Thinkpads, and had very high praises for them, as they constantly challenge their R&D team to come up with a better design to improve performance and focus a lot on ease of use. The only think I don't like is their mouse. I have had got carpel-tunnel-syndrome once and it was a pretty painful experience for me, and hence I vowed against using Thinkpad's mouse, I always connect an external mouse whenever I have to use a Thinkpad.

Hope that helps. I would suggest that if money is not an issue, don't go with Dell, if support is a major concern, then don't go with HP/Compaq. If you like Thinkpad's mouse and have no issues with it, go with the Thinkpad.

Love is blind, but marriage is a real eye opener.

Wow, thanks everybody for replying. I've got way more information than I hoped for. I should be able to find a decent laptop with that. Wish me luck :-)

"*sigh* Some men are really hard to manipulate!" - Orchid

Check out Dell, I looked through some notebooks shopping for one for college, and I liked what I saw at Dell (my Dad had an IBM Think-Pad A series and I love it, but they discontinued that line).

All the stuff he wants, you can only find in their XPS Gaming model. P4 EE with hyper threading, 7200 rpm HD (as fast as it gets in laptops), 512 etc. etc.

Apperantly they have a new model, XPS Gen 2. Pentium M, but GDDR2 ram (512), Geforce Go 6800 Ultra PCI Express graphics card, etc. etc.

Or just shop around. Like I said, the XPSs and the 9200s are good (obviously you'll have to change the locale from US to... sweden right?).

Pistol Grip Pump In My Lap At All Times

sweden right?

Switzerland, but it was a close enough guess. :-) Thanks.

"*sigh* Some men are really hard to manipulate!" - Orchid

I loose again :-P

Pistol Grip Pump In My Lap At All Times

That reminds me of something, forgive me for briefly going off-topic:

In the Oval Office in December 2002, the president met with a few ranking senators and members of the House, both Republicans and Democrats. ...The problem, everyone agreed, was that a number of European countries, like France and Germany, had armies that were not trusted by either the Israelis or Palestinians. One congressman -- the Hungarian-born Tom Lantos, a Democrat from California and the only Holocaust survivor in Congress -- mentioned that the Scandinavian countries were viewed more positively. Lantos went on to describe for the president how the Swedish Army might be an ideal candidate to anchor a small peacekeeping force on the West Bank and the Gaza Strip. Sweden has a well-trained force of about 25,000. The president looked at him appraisingly, several people in the room recall.

''I don't know why you're talking about Sweden,'' Bush said. ''They're the neutral one. They don't have an army.''

Lantos paused, a little shocked, and offered a gentlemanly reply: ''Mr. President, you may have thought that I said Switzerland. They're the ones that are historically neutral, without an army.'' Then Lantos mentioned, in a gracious aside, that the Swiss do have a tough national guard to protect the country in the event of invasion.

Bush held to his view. ''No, no, it's Sweden that has no army.''

The room went silent, until someone changed the subject.

Ewige Blumenkraft!