Reading Other Topics

Some of us seem to feel mistreated by bad ratings lately. Time to talk about it once more I think.

To be honest I didn't see any Red rating since the two I mentioned a few weeks ago, and thats okay. I think we all agree to keep the red ones for lamers we dont wonna see here.

But, I also refuse to mark each and every post Green, cause simply not every post is worth it. I keep the green ones for really outstanding, or funny or beautiful articles that I also - mind my words - absolutely agree with! If I want it or not, funny enough I never find a post outstanding I *dont* agree with! Maybe I'm too stupid or easy minded for it, but somehow I can't make a difference there.

I use Yellows for avarage posts every now and then. Read the definition again, its for avarage posts "I may not agree with", but its worth reading. So after all giving a yellow rating is still a mark for the others to read this post as well. I cant see anything bad about it other than its not outstanding!

But then again, maybe we have to rethink the whole thing again. I know Jaz wont be too happy we're talking about it again, but still I think this whole rating business becomes more and more a competition, a kinda race for Greens. If anybody gets so sad or angry about a yellow rating that he feels the need to complain about it, I think its going the wrong direction.

I'm trying to share my thoughts about different topics with people, who have totally different backgrounds than me, living in different cultures, made different experiences. To know these people by their opinions, to see a personality unfold in multiple posts, thats what NAO for me is all about, and NOT whether or not someone agrees with me. And even if I absolutely dont understand some points of view and keep opposing against it, still its fascinating to learn more about the person behind the words. If you only would try to understand that rating is not FOR or AGAINST a person, but just reflects the subjective opinion of the one who pressed the rating button at that very moment...

After decades of construction my website is finally up an running: www.kkds.de

The difficulty comes in the meaning of green, then. It says, "This post is well written". That would indicate to me that a yellow means "This post is sort of average in its expression" and a red means "Get this loser out of here, he's ruining it for everyone".

But, the problem as I see it is simply these labels. Green and Yellow and Red are comparing apples and oranges and pears. Green is for well written posts, yellow is "I can see the viewpoint, though I don't agree", and red is for spammers. They aren't even measuring the same scale.

I was under the impression that the rating was to help us to keep the people who express themselves in appropriate and lucid ways, the ones who contribute to the neatness of this culture, on the list, and to discourage those who just want to yell and flame and advertise off of the list.

But, right now, we have three orthoganal rating buttons, each of which rates someone in a completely different category. Given the ambiguity, I treated them all as being on the same scale as Green: how well written is the post, and is it abusive or not?

I think a lot of confusion could be avoided by making the ratings all rate the same thing, and that's just a matter of good labeling.

C

Sig Wanted -- Apply Within

The difficulty comes in the meaning of green, then. It says, "This post is well written". That would indicate to me that a yellow means "This post is sort of average in its expression" and a red means "Get this loser out of here, he's ruining it for everyone".

I dont think we should rate any users ability to write in English, his orthography or his grammar (I'd fail ALL tests then :-) ). Thats not what "well written" means, I guess.

Sure, you're right, somehow everybody seems to have made his own interpretation for it, and so misunderstandings have to happen.

In my view we dont need ratings at all, but I know I wont make it with this proposal. So somehow we must find a useful definition we all agree to, AND any new user is able to understand without talking about it again.

After decades of construction my website is finally up an running: www.kkds.de

How about just the green and the red. The red ones to keep the scum out, the green ones to mark some really good posts. If one does not get the green, they will know maybe their post was not interesting enough for people to recommend it to others.

All the misunderstandings are due to the orange button. I guess, the green and the red are like pure black and white! The Orange is the culprit! First it was yellow, then it just changed it's colours, but remained to cause so much confusion!

Love is blind, but marriage is a real eye opener.

How about just the green and the red.

Would be okay for me, as well as the ealier idea of two additional values, and then really rate how much you like it or not.

After decades of construction my website is finally up an running: www.kkds.de

I quite like the 3-system we have.
Red is almost never used (apart from some, I thin, misunderstandings and spam of course) so you knew green=good post, yellow=good enough to appreciate with the yellow button (and it hasn't changed its meaning by getting orange, really not) but not that great.
If we'd let away the yellow button I'm afraid every post gets the green vote as it is now because look at the forum "abortion" or so. For several months I could see a tendency of just voting every post. There are good posts but there are also average ones where you couldn't see the writer sat down for half an hour.
Some months ago NAO was more agreable: There were many posts on a topic but you could really see just one or two green ones (the rest nothing or yellow). That helped far more to see: "Ah, this post of Martin is green voted, I'll read it though maybe it's long" but now you don't have the choice: Every post is marked green by one person or so. I think green really shouldn't be used so much.

"Sie wollen nichts anderes. Sie wollen kämpfen! Sie sind Soldaten! Fucking Wahnsinnige!" - Noel G.

Sigh.......okay I'll quit marking every syllable he utters green............hmmmmmmmmmmmm unless of course I happen to think it is well written.......but then I think everything he writes is well written......because he wrote it....

Sigh......okay.......I'll check into counseling on addiction. I don't think there is a l2 step program for him, though.

But I'll check.

quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

I remember Jaz writing once that he never wants that to happen. He doesn't want that people start rating each others on whether they agree to the opinion expressed in the post or not.

IMO, the purpose of the ratings is just to let a user know how *interesting* a post is. So, if one likes the views expressed in the post (whether one agrees to it or not), and would like others to definitely read the post, then it should be a green. If however, someone wants people to avoid a particular post because they feel that it is not written in good faith (maybe an abuse, or maybe just doesn't strike a feeling that it's worth-reading), then it should be voted an orange. The reds are just to keep the scum out.

I know I suggested the 5 button thing first, but, after Jaz explained his view, I think it might not be a good idea. That would make people voting in a race to find out who is more compatible with others, I mean Frank and Martin will just vote each other out, and their votes will cancel each other (they have the same voting power, right). :D

So, maybe abolishing the orange might be a better idea, OR, a clear understanding/explanation of the green and the orange posts are needed. An orange means, don't read it, it's not worth it, a green means, worth reading! A red as usual means let's kick him outta here.

Love is blind, but marriage is a real eye opener.

He doesn't want that people start rating each others on whether they agree to the opinion expressed in the post or not.

I think every user agrees to this and I also think respects this. I mean we're old enough, aren't we?

So, maybe abolishing the orange might be a better idea, OR, a clear understanding/explanation of the green and the orange posts are needed. An orange means, don't read it, it's not worth it, a green means, worth reading! A red as usual means let's kick him outta here.

As I already said, I don't like the idea of abolishing the orange, it takes away a little bit of variety we have here in NAO, I mean you could also abolish any kind of voting then.

Jaz already exposed an explanation for the colours and noone ever objected. I myself like Jaz' explanation very much. I think it's very clear.
And I don't think anyone can blame others for votings as long as he or she didn't get a red one which wouldn't be nice. It happened to me two times and I wasn't amused about it because there was no reason at all to vote red. After Martin's post I think now everyone got the meaning of red posts.

"Sie wollen nichts anderes. Sie wollen kämpfen! Sie sind Soldaten! Fucking Wahnsinnige!" - Noel G.

I think every user agrees to this and I also think respects this.

Well, if that was the case then we wouldn't be discussing this again, right? I think Chris' post on abortion was a very well-written post, and it was in no way just an average post, or not worth reading. The ratings he and others got in many of the posts were purely due to the fact of disagreeing with their opinions.

I won't say anything about myself, because I don't consider myself a very good writer, and I am sure many of my posts are just *average* and probably can be easily skipped, so if I get an orange, I feel bad for just a little while, but understand that it must not be because someone doesn't agree to me, but it's because I have written something which is not worth reading.

[compliment mode]
But, I can certainly say about others like Martin and Chris, that their posts are very well-written, and they don't deserve an orange anytime. Even when they are asking someone to shut up, they masquerade it so well, that it seems like a very well-written post! :) No I mean it, I don't see any reason for their posts getting an orange. Maybe I am addicted to these guys posts, GDW, please let me know if you are joining a rehab center to get out of that addiction, I might join in!
[/compliment mode]

As I already said, I don't like the idea of abolishing the orange, it takes away a little bit of variety we have here in NAO, I mean you could also abolish any kind of voting then.

Yes, I agree to you on this one. It does provide a bit of variety, and I like it too. And, since Null points out that the ratings do increase even if a person receives an orange, just not as much it would if the person had received a green, I guess it's okay.

It happened to me two times and I wasn't amused about it because there was no reason at all to vote red. After Martin's post I think now everyone got the meaning of red posts.

Yes, I am glad they did. Even I was a victim of the red rating at that time. I know how it feels. Thanks Martin. Because of you, I have survived so far!

Love is blind, but marriage is a real eye opener.

But, I can certainly say about others like Martin and Chris, that their posts are very well-written, and they don't deserve an orange anytime. Even when they are asking someone to shut up, they masquerade it so well, that it seems like a very well-written post! :) No I mean it, I don't see any reason for their posts getting an orange. Maybe I am addicted to these guys posts, GDW, please let me know if you are joining a rehab center to get out of that addiction, I might join in!

<blush>

:)

C

Sig Wanted -- Apply Within

Just in case you didn't know: there is a donation account available to help those addicted to wonnabe-well-written-posts.

Its called the "Victims of Chris and Martin Fund".

Any donations are welcome cause indeed there seem to be victims all over the world who have to be nursed and deserve it. Please help! Any kind of help is appreciated! Contact me for details!

After decades of construction my website is finally up an running: www.kkds.de

This post was deleted by request of the author.

Please explain it to me, too. You have to know I used to have three white stars and now all is gone :-(
How can I survive? ;-)
Oh please, what can I do??

"Sie wollen nichts anderes. Sie wollen kämpfen! Sie sind Soldaten! Fucking Wahnsinnige!" - Noel G.

I'm the biggest victim so just send me an email and I will give you my account number. You can deposit all your donations straight into my bank account.

I'm awfuly sorry, there seems to be another misunderstanding.

The Fund wont be able to help with financial outlays at all. All monetary donations of course go straight to my personal account, <cough>, excuse me, what I wanted to say was: of course there are bills to pay. All those seats in different Rehab Centres cost a hell of a lot of bucks, as you can imagine.

We're glad to offer only the best accomodation, especially for our long time patients. There is a full allday program available to get those poor people back into reality, lots of medical personal has to be paid. You see, sadly enough there is no money available we could offer to new victims.

But if you place your signup now, we might be able to provide a free seat for you in..uuhm..lemme think..uum..about 4.5 years from now.

In the meantime we're glad to provide clean and dry blankets on demand, a warm meal everyday if you can make it to one of our stations and of course each and every good word you can ask for! Remember, there will always be a helping hand out there, you just have to take it and... dont forget to send your money, so we can keep up our work and I can finally buy me a little lodge in Ireland, no, sorry again, forget that, nonsense, only joking of course, Hahaha.... <cough>

Next.

After decades of construction my website is finally up an running: www.kkds.de

It would be much cheaper to just continue posting, wouldn't it, Martin? I mean, let's just feed the addiction. We could become dealers!

C

Sig Wanted -- Apply Within

This post was deleted by request of the author.

:)

I write a lot of stories because I don't have anyone to talk to out here, kind of lonely, so I am using NAO as the medium to vent out the thoughts! If I didn't do that, god knows what these complex thoughts will do to me!

No, things won't change when my wife and my daughter join me. Now, I don't have anyone to talk to; when my wife is here, I won't get a chance to talk! ;)

Love is blind, but marriage is a real eye opener.

So do I. And what's the 'prize? I never get green points and I'll always keep this f**ing yellow star which used to be white.
That makes me so sad that I feel a bit like an outsider. I'm too uneducated, can't write posts that impress a cow and have no time to write long ones which are usually voted because they say so much (way too much). And because I have never tiome to read them, I can't follow the topix anymore and therefor why shouldn't I freeze my account?
Sorry but I'm a pessimiste and depressive about this

"Sie wollen nichts anderes. Sie wollen kämpfen! Sie sind Soldaten! Fucking Wahnsinnige!" - Noel G.

Do not be please, I totally understand your time limits on you right now.

When I see your posts I go to them because of that....because you would not be posting unless very moved and important.....

I go to your posts because....you make me remember the thoughts, the questions, the confusion of all the roads open to a young woman.

You are so honest in your thoughts on finding your way in love, family, world affairs, fun times, sad times, mad times, good times, wondering times.

You are my salt, my sugar, my hot peppers, my milk and cookies, my God I must be hungry.........

lol......do not be sad.....forget stars and ratings and please find the time to keep sharing you with me.....you are very important to me.

quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

Thank you very much! Sometimes I think you're the only person on NAO whom I haven't brought up yet. That makes me feel happy :-) Someone's on my side...

I'll keep on visiting NAO and if a topic is worth a posting I'll do it. :-)
And of course your posts are always an indicator to an interesting topic though I've sometimes problems understanding your englis, I'm too bad ;-)

"Sie wollen nichts anderes. Sie wollen kämpfen! Sie sind Soldaten! Fucking Wahnsinnige!" - Noel G.

And what's the 'prize? I never get green points and I'll always keep this f**ing yellow star which used to be white.
That makes me so sad that I feel a bit like an outsider. I'm too uneducated, can't write posts that impress a cow and have no time to write long ones which are usually voted because they say so much (way too much). And because I have never tiome to read them, I can't follow the topix anymore and therefor why shouldn't I freeze my account?
Sorry but I'm a pessimiste and depressive about this

You see, thats what I wanted to say about "the race for Greens". Its such a pity you feel like this. You dont deserve it at all. Its so beautiful to read your always so emotional posts, there is absolutely no need for you to feel bad or depressive about anything regarding your posts. If you only would try to see it from a different angle: you, we are sharing thoughts about totally different topics. Lately the overall mood of NAO changed quite drasticly more to the political taste. But dont worry, time will come when everybody has said everything to profile himself, to find his own place in this little community, and everything gets a bit more relaxed again. You did find your place already! You dont need to take part in this struggle to be the best. You are the emotional side against all the intellectual blahblah. I told you before, sometimes I wish I had your ability to get my words down so directly and unpolished as you can. Its way more honest in one sense. And of course more controversial. Dont feel bad about it, be proud of it!
NAO will change again back to the old family feeling. You are loved here, I do, and I can think of a few others who might perhaps feel the same ;-) ! Dont even think of quitting! And try to forget about those fuckin ratings, stars and stuff, its about YOU and not about the amount of percentage you got behind your name!

After decades of construction my website is finally up an running: www.kkds.de

This post was edited by Martin on May 25, 2002.

Thank you, too. it's so nice to know I'm loved here by at least three persons :-)
it always gave me the power to keep going and it will now give me the power to keep on posting. I'm really not intelectual and often feel sad about not knowing so much to be able to share my thoughts. But I'm happy you like my posts though. :-)

I have always been afraid NAO will get this way. Unclear and confusing by too much (long) posts and discussions. Always when ilog in it says "8 new topics found" at least. How shall I read all of 'em?
I miss the "old" NAO where I knew everybody and read even technical posts ;-) I stayed always long and made up an own topic when nothing new happened and then some people replied and so on. Now I'm just glazing at the new ones but never read 'em because there so long and you have to read all the other opinions, too.

"Sie wollen nichts anderes. Sie wollen kämpfen! Sie sind Soldaten! Fucking Wahnsinnige!" - Noel G.

I have always been afraid NAO will get this way. Unclear and confusing by too much (long) posts and discussions. Always when ilog in it says "8 new topics found" at least. How shall I read all of 'em?

But what will happen if NAO keeps growing as we all hope? Isn't it just that, to learn more about even more different people? We cant close the doors just because its so cozy with just 5 people...I think. ;-)

I miss the "old" NAO where I knew everybody and read even technical posts I stayed always long and made up an own topic when nothing new happened and then some people replied and so on. Now I'm just glazing at the new ones but never read 'em because there so long and you have to read all the other opinions, too.

If you dont like the mood or the kind of posts written, rate it! ;-) Or if they're not your topics, just post your own topics! You did it one month ago, why not now? Its us, you as well as any other member on NAO, who create the mood and the contents of this site. You are a part of it, not just a consumer who's to be entertained like some lurkers (right Ilka?). You got the power to change it the way you want it to be, use it!

After decades of construction my website is finally up an running: www.kkds.de

This post was edited by Martin on May 26, 2002.

This post was deleted by request of the author.

This post was edited by frank on May 27, 2002.

Because it will prevent abusers to take over the site in 15 minutes.

'Yeah, That's what Jesus would do. Jesus would bomb Afghanistan. Yeah.' - snowlion