Reading Politics

Jun 21, 2005 04:30 # 36588

charlie *** posts about...

American values

68% | 7

The democrats of the great Red state of South Dakota are trying to snag a piece of "religion" that was previously monopolized by republicans.

The thinking here is that the democrats need to show their fellow republican citizens that they too value "Jesus" (and hopefully then they can turn them democrat). My question is:

When did Christianity become an American value?!?

Damn, before 9/11 Christ had the same weight as any another swear word on Capitol Hill. But then we got a president who manipulated the more impressionable Christian population (twice) by saying words like "Jesus" and "Abortion". And now Christianity is an American value.

But kudos to the democrats for using Jesus (not only to get elected but also) to actually get something worthwhile done. I don't care if they say Jesus, Buddha or Atheism if they can use it to help the destitute.

Please contiune to vote AND post.

This post was edited by charlie on Jun 21, 2005.

Jun 21, 2005 19:52 # 36603

majic *** replies...

Re: American values

91% | 3

I (being a christian) was not manipulated, I didn't vote for Bush. I however, do think he's "doing the right thing(tm)". I won't get into the reasoning of why I don't vote or rather haven't yet.

Clearly the Dems and Reps have no desire to help the destitute, their bottom line is to get elected then carry out their choreographed agendas.

Jun 21, 2005 22:33 # 36612

Jimi * replies...

Heck Yes

93% | 3

Believe me, I know what you're talking about. I live in Nashville, Tennessee, where every graduation speech or school activity begins with a prayer and ends with a sermon. In the beginning, though, America was very biased to Christianity because almost everyone was Christian. Just read the first couple of sentences of the Declaration of Independence. Also, the very fathers of America, a country of supposed liberty and justice, owned slaves. So, really, what we call 'values' have changed throughout time.

But let politicians be politicians...

Breathe.

Jul 03, 2005 03:10 # 36918

ecthelion33 *** replies...

Re: American values

?% | 1

And now Christianity is an American value.

An interesting conclusion. I have not noticed any great change in the direction of American cultural values since 9/11, or at all within the past decade for that matter. I think that the exact opposite is true, in fact--if you want evidence, consider the fact that Christianity is the only religion with more than 10,000 members in the U.S. that is declining; losing membership.

I would say that it is an unrealistic analysis to claim that Christianity is suddenly 'in'. It is, of course, correct to observe that in times of great stress, fear, or danger, the ministry of the churches becomes more overt and frequent. The terrorist attacks of September 11th were horrific acts that cause people to ask important, enduring questions, like why is there suffering in the world? and why would a benevolent god allow something like this to happen? It is in times of suffering that the church operates best and the most. Times when those religious values that they cherish and profess are tried.

Christianity is inextricably tied in with American history. We are, after all, a nation founded on very Christian values--every human being is created equal, endowed by a creator with certain rights. It is a Christian view of humanity and individual human nature that drove our founding fathers (most of them, anyway) to dissolve our connections with Britain, and create a nation where every individual has value, and where a man can succeed based on his merits, not on who his father was.

These values have endured, but the Christian motivation has declined over time. This instance of the advertisement in South Dakota, and other like cases, do not mark a dynamic renewal of the Christian faith in North America. Rather, Christianity has been in a state of western decline since the 60's. The churches are in a profoundly troublesome state theologically, educationally, and most of all--demographically. If Christianity is the 'in' thing right now, please explain why enduring marriages, tithing, missions and outreach, and ecumenical instruction are in the dumps. The American religion is less so Christianity than it is neo-Gnosticism, a conviction that truth lies with the individual, based on his or her own personal appetites, his or her own personal knowledge.

Christianity is not the American religion. Modern American values are self-centric, which is absolutely polarized from the Christian understanding of the self. If our nation were not engaged in raging debates about abortion, gay marriage, and euthenasia, if more than a third of its citizens actually went to church every sunday, if one in three parents were not divorced, I would probably be inclined to agree with you.

-ecthelion-

Jul 03, 2005 04:08 # 36920

Aynjell *** replies...

Re: American values

Please no. Christianity is a right, something I can have. And with all the much that is being forced down my throat, soon I will be required to love christ and for many the meaning will be lost. I am by no means a christian, hell, I won't be till I can make hydes or tales of it. But still, this country is sucking more and more by the day. I think I'm gonna move soon...

I should be ashamed of myself.

Jul 03, 2005 04:50 # 36921

Magnifico *** replies...

Re: American values

?% | 1

Christianity is not the American religion. Modern American values are self-centric, which is absolutely polarized from the Christian understanding of the self. If our nation were not engaged in raging debates about abortion, gay marriage, and euthenasia, if more than a third of its citizens actually went to church every sunday, if one in three parents were not divorced, I would probably be inclined to agree with you.

The tendency of self-proclaimed Christians throughout American history have been known to flaunt a number of un-Christian ideals and behaviours. Christian apologists tried to justify slavery and the Jim Crow laws, after all. Considering the background of hatred, ignorance, self-aggrandizement and self-betterment, disregard for the social outcasts of the nation, et cetera, et cetera, is it really any suprise that we are still a country full of self-professing Christians who reek of hypocrisy? Jesus' morals weren't and aren't the values of America; I think the point of the original post here was that people are trying to make the religion a basis for their self-betterment, regardless of the underlying truth.

And as far as this far and wide abuse of the true church of Jesus Christ, on both sides of the political spectrum, I think the whole lot can collectively fuck themselves. Sideways. For anybody to use any religion the way we see it abused today, not just here but in many countries, I feel is an affront to the actions of those who truly follow in the footsteps of their religious icons. The self-righteous televangelists you see today, the ones who decry the moral depravity of our country before getting caught in extra-marital trysts with multiple partners in seedy motels are the same fucking people Jesus spoke against. In fact, the only harsh words Jesus ever has for any of the people he encounters in the New Testament are for the moral hypocrites who try to set themselves on a moral pedestal as though they were themselves the pinnacles of human ethical behaviour. I say burn 'em at the stake.

I'll believe in anything if you'll just believe in anything

Jul 08, 2005 01:50 # 36997

charlie *** replies...

Re: American values

60% | 2

An interesting conclusion...that Christianity is suddenly 'in'.

What I meant (although I was not aware of it at first) is that the rhetoric of Christianity is suddenly 'in'. Of course very few people in the country are living by true Christian values, but many people are certainly speaking as if they had Christian values.

Aww man thats SOOO LOW! if someone goes voting for them after seeing that, it's gonna be an insult for their own intelligence.

Sadly, I can't vote in this state yet Yoshi :).

I have a friend who believes that God is in control of fate. He also believes that power absolutely corrupts. Thus, he will never vote or seek election.

I'm not that heady, but all this back and forth is confusing enough to make me want to quit voting. And frankly if I were voting in South Dakota, I would vote Democrat just to vote for the underdog.

Please contiune to vote AND post.

Jul 04, 2005 09:02 # 36935

yoshi314 * replies...

Re: American values

Aww man thats SOOO LOW! if someone goes voting for them after seeing that, it's gonna be an insult for their own intelligence.

"Life is a queue. You come in, hang around for a bit, get some service, then depart."

Jul 11, 2005 09:10 # 37042

Tetrazome ** replies...

Re: American values

?% | 1

I think it's a good strategy. The right tries to monopolize religion and label the left as a bunch of godless communists. God forbid they try and prove this idiocy wrong.

"Nurture your mind with great thoughts, for you will never go any higher than you think."


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