Reading Politics

Jan 23, 2006 04:24 # 41434

charlie *** takes out his flame thrower...

Abortion is such a token issue

91% | 4

The pro-choice pro-life debate is such token issue. Candidates use this issue to make themselves look righteous, feminist, pro-freedom, etc.

If you are really concerned about babies dieing, get the government to fund more aid for single mothers and poor families. Or better yet, actually enforce child payments for deadbeat dads.
Oh, and here's a completly non-political solution. Spend time with your f* children. Remind them how important they are. How they don't deserve to be used as a sex tool by some moron. And if they just want to have sex, remind them they can't support and child and encourage them to wear protection.

People don't get abortions because they want to kill babies. They get abortions because they have unplanned sex (usually because they don't have good self-esteem) or because they are in desperate financial stuations.

So quit voting for abortion like it's about the babies! Abortion is about the mothers. If we actually supported (finacially and emotionally) mothers and young women in this country, we wouldn't need to have nearly as many abortions.

Any candidate using abortion as a platform plank is just using your egotisitical view of yourself (either you see yourself as a high and mighty "moralist" or a "civil rights activist") to win your vote.

F* voting for abortion. Vote for mothers.

Please contiune to vote AND post.

Jan 23, 2006 08:35 # 41438

Hardballkid *** throws in his two cents...

Re: Abortion is such a token issue

91% | 2

The debate over Abortion I believe is unique. Not specifically because of the content, but because it is something that about half the nation of America is opposed to or supportive of. Furthermore, it is an ethical argument, that people will take seriously and to far extents.

Abortion is unique for these reasons: it is a moral argument, it gives passion to those who are nihilistic in other matters, and there are as many people for it as there are against it.

People don't get abortions because they want to kill babies.

Well, no matter how you view it, its the end result. In the end, that dead child causes a cloud of blame to be shared by many individuals, e.g., the physician doing the procedure, the nurse who assists, the clinic staff, the authorizing physician, the referring physician, the legislators or judge who made abortion legally available, etc. As well as the American public for allowing such genocide.

So quit voting for abortion like it's about the babies!

Who else is it for then? Granted, abortion can be a 'good image' PR crap driving-force for some politicians. However, the child/unborn baby is the center of the focus. A living being with no choice nor voice needs rights.

emotionally) mothers and young women in this country, we wouldn't need to have nearly as many abortions.

What the heck is planned parenthood for then. I thought that besides just being a legal killing warehouse; they are suppose to counsel women and offer alternatives beyond aborting the child. After all, their mission statement is "Putting Prevention First." To do so though, would ensure their dimise.

Vote for mothers.

In what way? For many, we already have. It was called Roe v. Wade.

Abortion on demand is unfortunately a multi-million dollar business in the United States. Americas hands are definetly covered in blood.

As for it being a token issue- maybe, maybe not. None the less, its an important issue.

Now are ye undeceived! Welcome, again, my children, to the communion of your race!

Jan 23, 2006 15:50 # 41440

charlie *** replies...

Re: Abortion is such a token issue

95% | 3

So last night on the news there was a story about how congress is going to try and use this conservative white house - and the conservative judges it has put in place - to overturn Roe vs Wade. And the fact is: it doesn't matter if you overturn it or not because that doesn't solve the problem.

Clinton was pro-choice, but under Clinton there were fewer abortions because the government had programs that supported single mothers and desperate families.

I know this doesn't solve all the problems. There will still be plenty of abortions.

But people are so distant from the problem. You can say you are for unborn babies, but you never have to help them through hard times. You never have to spend time with unborn babies while they cry about the horrible choice they have to make.

Abortion on demand is unfortunately a multi-million dollar business in the United States. Americas hands are definetly covered in blood.

All I'm saying is, if we had some compassion on the people having abortions, abortion would be a million dollar industry instead of a multimillion dollar industry.

Please contiune to vote AND post.

This post was edited by charlie on Jan 23, 2006.

Jan 23, 2006 22:50 # 41448

baexcell *** replies...

Re: Abortion is such a token issue

70% | 2

I will not say there are some points to what you said. I happen to disagree with the overall tone of your post. Abortion is, and always should be, about the child who is murdered by its own mother. And while I do realize there are sometimes justified reasons (i.e. rape and imminent danger to the mother) for it, in today's society it is becoming as much a birth control device as condoms or birth control pills. People who are too lazy, too stupid, or otherwise unwilling to take a simple low-cost step to contraception decide that abortion is somehow an equally viable option.

As to when you said that we need to give more money to the mothers so thay can raise the children, they have more than the choice of keeping the child and killing it. Adoption is a very good option and in a number of places in the country they can do it as simply as leaving the child outside a fire department or hospital.

So, before you tell me that abortion is a token issue, maybe you should give some real thought to who its victims are. They aren't the mothers, the doctors, or anyone else who takes part in the operation by choice, they are the voiceless children never given the opportunity to live the life we all have the right to.

Jan 25, 2006 23:00 # 41468

Salvial_Ten *** throws in her two cents...

Token Issues, Abortion, and Adoption

93% | 2

This is actually a reply to all three of you, baexcell, hardballkid, and charlie. However, instead of replying to three different threads I wanted do it all in one swoop.

One level I agree that the issue is becoming a token one due to how many times the "Abortion Card" has been played by candidates since the decision in Roe v. Wade. This bothers me a lot because as HBK said it is an important issue. Eventually people will become as jaded to the issue as they do most others--and I'm speaking of the general voting public as opposed to activists on either side of the lobby line--and thus whatever your outlook on the issue is really won't matter much because there won't be a surge of voices screaming along with you to get the issue handled. That said, let us move on.

I'm pro-choice. This does not mean I'm all for going out and getting an abortion, on the contrary I don't think it is something I personally would never do, however I do not have the right to tell you that you can't either. Just like I can't go out and tell you what religion to practice, how to vote, or what hospital you have to go to or where your kids have to be educated. Itís your business and not mine, thusly a matter of privacy. This privacy is actually the issue Roe v. Wade was meant to cover, not whether or not a clump of cells that technically hasn't reached the fetal stage (first trimester) is or is not being murdered, since technically it can't feel or think, and is not at this point self aware. I'm completely opposed to second and third trimester abortions (unless itís a matter of survival) but that's a bit of a tangent.

Anyway, its privacy that RvW handles, and I'm rather afraid of what overturning that decision could mean outside of the abortion arena. If one of the biggest precedents concerning a person's privacy is overturned, that leaves the door even more open to "Big Brother" like behavior from the government then events of 9/11 had allowed. The catalyst then though, was national fear and panic that brought on the Patriot Act. Itís been my personal experience that people don't think about things like this beyond the biggest issue involved in the case.

As for adoption:

It is a wonderful thing, however, from what I understand about it, the adoption process is long and difficult and requires an income level that most US Citizens don't meet, at least not anymore. I know that the rules of adoption are complicated to protect the child being adopted, however, itís less difficult to become a foster parent and a lot of kids run into very, very bad situations there and in orphanages, so it seems to me like their preventive measures have run into the realm of paranoia.

And naturally, the process being so difficult is probably a huge factor in why there aren't that many kids being adopted. And kids not being adopted means that they get to probably spend most of their life getting cycled in and out of orphanages and foster homes that may or may not be healthy living environments with people that may or may not see them as just a paycheck (especially in state run orphanages). That can really screw a person up in the long run, emotionally and psychological.

That I personally think is a cruel thing to do with a child. But with conservative views in Washington, that means there likely won't be any abortion reform because social welfare is not a priority on the conservative agenda, unless of course it is to abolish abortion. That I feel is only ranked high on their list because a lot of people that vote Republican tend to do so for the issue of abortion and that alone (this I've concluded from experience, most of the Republicans I know disagree with party on most other issues).

Just my two cents.

--Jami

--Jami Yeah, that's gonna sting in the morning.


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