Reading Love and Lifesense

Well, there is this girl whom I know since 5 years, i've always felt attracted to her and I always loved her for who she was, for her character, for how she talked to me. I learned a lot from her during the past, and I guess she even learned more from me. I already told her that i love her, about 2 years ago. but well, maybe she wasn't ready for it back then, maybe she wasn't feeling the same as I did, or maybe she was just scared, but she rejected me.

And this led to a squarrel due to my own stupidity and minority-complexes (if you like to call it that way) and well, there was an episode where we haven't talked for like 4 months. I may have to add that she lives about 150 km from here, so I can't just walk up to her door and tell her how sorry I am. Also, that quarrel was rather a misunderstanding, i told her that i don't want to see her again, because i couldn't stand being around her with those feelings, just living on as if nothing happened, and she thought I wouldn't like her anymore.

And later on, I realised that i couldn't stand being without her, either. And I realised how stupid I was.

I told her how sorry I was/still am, put things into the right context, explained things again to her, and finally, after a lot of work and good conversations we met again. I enjoyed her company a lot, we had a lot of fun, and I tried not to bother her.
And later on, we both agreed that it was the most beautifull, joyfull, wonderfull gathering of us two ever. Although we haven't met for about 8 months back and and we had this whole quarrel, that gathering was just as if she's been on the toilet for 5 minutes and not away for 8 months. We got along right after the first second and it was as if we've never had any problems.

we've come a lot closer in the time since then, had many overwhelming conversations, just had the hell of a good time together, although she hasn't visited me since that meeting.

I know she likes me a lot, even loves me (although I know she's a little unsure about her feelings), but she has never had a partner before, so she's quite shy and uncertain nwhen it comes to relationship things. I know that I'm the only one she's ever been interested in (she told me that).

And I know that she fears that I hope for too much and later on I could be disappointed, that she fears our friendship could cease to exist again if things don't work out.

And I know that she fears the whole relationship stuff due to her lack of experience. And she thinks that I have too good of an opinion of her and that when we get together i'd be disappointed to find out that she's not as good as i'd imagined, although I don't agree on that. But well, it's my own fault, when i really love someone I tell them all those things, try to express my feelings which often leads to exagerations, because i don't find words that are good enough do describe my feelings and then the other part gets the feeling that I think of them as of some sort of perfect goddess, but well, I'm quite aware that everbody has their mistakes, their errors, that nobody is perfect and me saying all this stuff is usually only an attemp to make my darling feel good.

That past months have been very nice and I think she never outed so much about herself to anyone else than she has to me in that period, but she has also delayed seeing me over and over again.

Well, this time I don't want to rush things, I want to give her all the time she needs, but I'm not sure what to do.

but I start to get tired of this whole up and down and I don't know how much longer I can keep on going with this status quo.

A little example for you to know how fast this up and down things can change:

She: "I fear to disappoint you, there's been this friend whom I've always told that it's only friendship and then he told me that he loved me and he got really disappointed and ceased talking to me. And I fear the same could happen with you"
Me: "That's bad, but I could never cease talking to you, I just like you too much to stop hearing your voice"
She: "Thank you :)"
Me: "And you've never told me that it's only friendship"
She: "Yes, and I won't tell you"

it's always like this, first something negative, like saying "maybe we should just be friends" and then something positive, like the thing that she doesn't tell me that it's only friendship, or the other way round.

Ah, and before you people suggest me going to her place, she doesn't like us being at her place that much, she prefers being at my home not having her parents around and stuff, so that was rather a clear "no". (I've been there before and I have to admit, she really acts more freely when being at my place)

well, what do you think? have any advice? or have you experienced the same?

thx for the help,

cya Magic :)

P.s. and for the reason I love her, well, being around her is wonderfull, we have a lot in common, but there are also differences. No matter what I talk about with her, she's always interested, we could spend years together and never get bored or run out of ideas as to what to do. She's the first thought I have ib mind when i wake up and the last when I god to bed, thinking of her always gives me this nice warm feeling inside myself which I sometimes miss so much. And when we're together, 24 hours a day is just to short to talk about everything we'd like to talk. She's an intelligent, independent, beautiful person with the best character i've ever seen in a girl. And she doesn't have all those, hum let's call them "bitch-attributes", many girls have, like being bitchy, going out shopping for hours, gossiping, putting makeup on to look better, being concerned too much with her look and so on (I know this is nothing bad, some of my earlier gf had some of those attributes, but i've always disliked them, and she really is nothing like them) This is not a major reason, but it just makes her more wonderfull
And she's the first girl I don't have this subtle "this ain't going to work out"-feeling, as usually i've had that from the beginning although i always needed some time to realise it

"The wise have always said the same things, and fools have always done the opposite"-Schopenhauer

Simple! Make her read this article. If she doesn't come running with open arms, she's not the one. I would... :)

No, seriously... I'm sorry to say, if she didn't decide for you after 5 years, she never will. And even if she does eventually, it'll go down in flames.

You're a friend, nothing less, but nothing more either. Every woman loves it to be loved, so she will never change anything about the situation. If she felt anything close to what you feel, she would have given up her doubts long ago. She may sit at home and TYRING to love you, but she feels it doesn't work, it doesn't feel as it should with all defences down. And five years is a long time, long enough to get used to certain habits and ways, which define your relationship now between the two of you. Once changing those ways by adding the physical, sexual part makes it a completely different relationship, which is only meant to disappoint the years long expectations and hopes.

Its the old fight between passion and control. If control was able to win over such a long period of time, passion MIGHT break through all of a sudden, but only to get control back in charge stronger than ever before.

I might be generalizing, I dont know either you nor her. There is no love from friendship, there might be compromises, try outs, self deception, but no love. The problem about waiting is the fact your life is passing by. And once you realize you've waited in vain noone will get you back those years. Even worse, there is a good chance you might keep being emotionally stuck in those years, always looking back and only thinking about, how it could have been, but never was.

Get out of it!

I know how easy this is said and how impossible it seems to do, believe me, I know it. But you have to find a decision. Either way, anything is better than waiting. Make her decide, if need be by an ultimatum. You cannot live that way forever. The more time goes by, the more you are degrading yourself as a junkie to her emotional crumbs she's willing to throw at your feet every now and then. Stand up again and get what you want, and if you cant have it, move along.... sorry.

Prove me wrong and give me back some degree of belief!

After decades of construction my website is finally up an running: www.kkds.de

Hello there martin and thx for your reply :)

well, maybe i should go a little more into detail, to clear at least some points up.

She's 17, i'm 20 (so age can still play an important role, although not that much to me and not as much ad it did some years ago) and when i first met her i think I was 15 and she was 13. (and to prevent any missunderstandings, lets call her vanessa) )

I had my first girlfriend with 16, she was just a good friend back then. I had a wonderfull 6 months with my girlfriend back then, I loved her and almost everything was just the way it was meant to be, except that, what i think and what my, now, ex-girlfriend thinks too, that i've always been more mature than she was, and she always think that no matter how much time we'd have, she could never catch up with me. There's always been this mental difference and that's the reason why it didn't work out, although it was one of the most beautiful times I've had in my live so far. I still have good contact with my first girlfriend and we have very good contact, although we're not seeing each other anymore. She has a boyfriend now and she fears falling in love with me again if we would meet again. And I respect that and I have no intention of putting her relationship at danger.

After I split with my first girlfriend, there's been nothing for some time, at least no girl 've been interested in. I always had nice conversations with Vanessa and we came along quite well, and after a while, i started to have feelings towards her. We met a lot, it was wonderfull every time (except for the one time I was completely stoned, but since then I never smoke when she's around... and I smoke less than I did back then) and then once I asked her if she wants to be my girlfriend, and as I mentioned in the previous post, she said no.

Then, when she wanted to visit me again, I just couldn't bear seeing her again and told her that i don't want to see her again (stupid... ), which oviously hurt her a lot and I regret a lot.
After some months when I had my head cleared up, I apologised for everything and we were just friends again. Then I met my second girlfriend (who was the girlfriend of some buddy I know) and while trying to save their relationship, I fell in love with her and she split and we came together for 5-6 months. We had a nice time, it was a complete new experience because she was very different to my first girlfriend, almost in every way. And she was the worst girlfriend I've ever had and I wouldn't wish her to my worst enemy. But I don't regret being together with her, I learned a lot from her and being together with someone on that level is always a wonderfull feeling no matter who it is, just knowing that there's someone there for you, so well, it was a nice time. During this time my relationship with Vanessa grew back to the old, "very good friends"-level.
After i'd split with my second girlfriend, there was a short epsiode that lasted 2 weeks with some other girl, but nothing really worth mentioning.
Well, my relationship to Vanessa started to get more intimate, not on a physical level, but more mental. Once she even told me how bad she felt when I had told her about my second girlfriend and me being together. I think there's no person she trusts more than she trusts me.
After some time she trusted me enough again to see me again, which was a marveoulous meeting and I fell in love again and she knows it. and she came even closer to me then she ever has. but well, I think the way it turned out last time, her being absolutely unexperienced as she's never had a boyfriend before (she's afraid of intimacy because she feels shes unexperienced and fears doing something wrong... ) and for some other reasons, she's been delaying our next meeting for quite some time. and well, I think the rest has been putten to words quite well in the previous post.
Ah, and she feels that the distance could be a problem, but well, the older you get the shorter the distances seem. Like 6 years ago when I went to zurich it was something special like "Wow going away that far from home"... no I drive those 40 km 5 days a week.

So you see, I'm not after her since 5 years, I've had other girlfriends, I've lived my live.

I don't think that I'm just a friend to Vanessa, but then I'm not entirely sure if she loves me the way I love her (And I think she's not entirly sure either). But I know she has feelings for me and I know her good enough to know that she isn't playing with me, she isn't the person that plays with other persons. In fact, I have met very few people in my life that are as honest as she is.

With the sexual part I think you're right... she IS afraid of sex, I mean she even told me.

And I know that it can't go on that way forever, it would ruin me. I had decided to clear everything up once and for all, but I want to do those matters personally, not on the phone or through chat. But well, she's been delaying that visit since, and as she said she doesn't want me to come to her place...
Well, I decided, I'll wait till her next holidays... and if she doesn't visit me then I'll just visit her, no matter what she says. I think this is the best thing I can do.

But what i've actually wrote this thread for, I wanted to know if you people have any better suggestion on what to do.

thx for your help :)

Magic

P.s.

Prove me wrong and give me back some degree of belief!

You've had the same problem as I have? or what do you mean by that sentence?
Well, it's quite a stress.
Care about telling me how it turned out?

"The wise have always said the same things, and fools have always done the opposite"-Schopenhauer

Care about telling me how it turned out?

I thought I wrote about it once here, but I cant find it anymore. Well it IS a long story, 18 years long in fact. I wont go too much into detail, otherwise I would be sitting here writing still in about a month from now... :)

I met that girl soon after I left my family and home. I was something like 20, she was 16 when we first met. Lets call her Sheila. It was the famous love on first sight thing on my side, so I tried everything to come close to her. And we did come close, oh yes, we did. You see, we had it all you can ever ask for while being around another human being - from your description I guess you know what I mean - everything, but no physical contact whatsoever, no holding hands, no kiss, an occasional hug was the highlight of the year. Due to certain personal problems within her personality, she was never really open for something like love, or how she defined it.

And I listened to her. Her personal problem grew worse and worse over the years. I always thought I was the one to help her out of that hole, I thought I was the one, the ONLY one, who had any access to her at all. She left out no opportunity to tell me, how important I was for her, how she feels close to me, how her definition of trust and friendship was redefined whenever we met. But in the end I had to realize, that I was in fact even pushing that problem just by my existence. But thats another part of the story.

Sheila even told me how she loves me, just that she was not ready yet for the kind of relationship I was wishing for. "My love for you is different." And I told her to wait as long as she needed it. Well, in fact I've waited for 18 years. 18 years until I found the ultimate power to unchain myself from my hopes and expectations. And believe you me, I've made myself a dog like slave to her small emotional gifts over the years.

We even had our tries later on, trying to live a relationship, in fact not once, but several times, but it all went awfully wrong time and again after just a few weeks, sometimes days. May be it would be too easy to just blame her personal problems for it, but they of course were a major factor in the outcome of those tries. No matter what went wrong between us, it was always clear we sort of belong together, and despite of all the problems and all the things missing, we always found our deep felt satisfaction in just the fact of growing old together and looking back on what we had been through together.

I found other girlfriends, nothing that lasted longer than a year, simply cause I was actually seeking a Sheila-clone. There were girls, who had parts of her character, but of course none was even close to her. And none could stand to know another woman in my life, who was *at least* as important to me as herself. Ever tried to explain a friendship with a woman to another woman?

Over the time our friendship changed slowly and unnoticed. I still loved her, may be I even still do today in a special way, but I had to realize, how she only drained my power and energy. Her personal problems never disappeared, on the contrary, they culminated in a (serious and only by accident averted) suicide attempt. Even before that I sometimes felt more like her therapist than her friend, cause our talks changed more and more into one-way-conversations about her and her condition, which only grew worse the deeper we came to the core of the problem.

Her problem became mine. I wasn't able anymore to make a difference between her condition and my own, simply because I was TOO close. I gave up my own wishes and needs for her wellbeing, if she felt good I did so, too, when she felt bad, I cursed and blamed myself for not being able to get a single step forward after all that time. Her suicide attempt was the peek of that experience. That felt for me as the ultimate defeat, all and everything I gave of myself was in vain, so I thought back then (I see that totally different today, but thats going too far). And finally I became aware of myself again as an autonomous person. It took another two years and two aborted tries, until I finally told her I will never talk to her again, that was in 2001.

After that a new life begun for me. Suddenly I could breathe again, I was the master over my own decisions again and all so many more changes, that I didn't even notice missing, while being in that (self-inflicted) chains. Sometimes I have to be careful and control myself of not blaming her for stealing a not so small chunk of my life away. I have to make myself aware again in those moments, that it has been my very own choice to live that way, as it was to leave her alone in the end. Sometimes I'm happy to not know, how much I hurt her with that decision, but then again I'm convinced meanwhile I have been - if not the reason, but at least - keeping her in her personal problems, and that she feels much better today without me.

Urgh.. its disgusting how shallow all this sounds, compared to what is has been, but how can you describe 18 years in a few lines of text? Should I really post this?

After decades of construction my website is finally up an running: www.kkds.de