Reading Salvial_Ten's journal

Earlier today I was at my grandmother’s mooching food off of her like any smart, broke college kid would do if they had a grandmother that liked to feed people living not but a few blocks from their campus. While I was there she had “Dr. Phil” on and there was this couple on the show that got married something like six weeks after they started dating, had been married for three years, and did nothing but fight with one another. They both claimed that they felt trapped by their marriage. How the fuck did they think it was gonna go? I mean, it’s a bit rash to get married that soon after meeting isn’t it? They’ve also got three kids; one was from the husband’s last marriage. I was watching this show and got to thinking about the idea of marriage and why it is I’ve always been so…adamant about remaining single.

I finally figured out why it is I’ve always shied away from the idea of getting married. At first, I thought it was just because I had some inborn fear of commitment but that isn’t entirely the case. Nay, it is more like I know I’m the type of person to make a decision—especially one as important as deciding to spend my life with someone—and stick with it.

This, might actually sound like a good thing, but what if the person I decided to marry ended up being a horrible mate? Dating for an indefinite amount of time, and even living with someone isn’t the same as being bound by marriage to them. In marriage, there isn’t that much room for the “self” when it comes to making important decisions as to move to another place for a career, change banks, and other such things. I don’t know if I could really trust anyone enough to have intimate knowledge of my finances, and I don’t know that I’d want to know so much about my partner’s. Some things I will always consider to be strictly my business come hell, high water, or the IRS.

And of course there’s the ideal of divorce. Things would have to be seriously bad for me to consider it, seeing how that I wouldn’t make the decision to wed lightly, and I’ve mentioned before that I’m a rather stubborn person. There wouldn’t be any chance of reconciliation, at least not on my end. With my luck I’d also get the short end of the asset stick as well. But, even though I’m not, and will never be, a rich woman there’s a good shot I’d force a prenuptial agreement on my spouse anyway. Damn, that says a lot about how much I trust people, doesn’t it?

You can say what you will about falling in love, I’m far too pragmatic and to some degree selfish to let myself fall into a decision like marriage without covering my ass. Does anyone else share my feelings on the subject, or am I just an exceptionally cold person for looking at marriage like its just some business contract?

--Jami

P.S. On a completely random note, I almost posted this one to other topics.

--Jami Yeah, that's gonna sting in the morning.

Marriage is a big deal and you have to know yourself well enough to know whether or not spending your life with someone else is something you want to do.

All your thoughts are things not to be taken lightly when entering into a life time walk with someone.
Even the best suited people are still individuals at heart, everything of thoes big things can be fine and it end up being the little things that make life miserable or wonderful.

In the currant climate of fast everything, does it surprise you at all that people get married so quickly after they meet.
Lots of people want the dream, but the daily grind is something else.

Marriage is alot like growing a garden. You have to know what you like and want and the other person has to be honest enough to know what they like and want too.

Someone once said you can only really know a person when you fight with them. I read that somewhere on one of the journals here.
And I agree with that. The other things that will give you an idea of true nature of another person is when you get sick or hurt or just need a friend to sort through stuff with.
The hard things bring out the true nature of a person.

And I think even more than that, if you ever decide to go for the isle walk, it's better to go there with someone who is your best friend than with someone your head over heals in love with.
Most of the time, the head over heals is only temporary.
Your lucky if the head over heals in love stays your whole life time.
That takes work too.

All thoes things you mentioned are things you will face in life whether or not your married.
Life ain't easy, and it can be easier with someone sharing the load.
And it's easier with a really good friend. They will do things that someone who says they love you often won't.

I don't think your being cynical at all. Just a realist, looking at some important things.

Just an after thought, it's hard to know if anyone is a great companion when you start out, even people who profess friendship, the test ground is when shit hits the fan.
Things can go haywire. You can believe your friends are there but find out that most all of what they have told you is nothing more than useless words.

I've gotten to the place where I really don't trust people when they say things, I just accept that most of what people say is lost somewhere in the middle of an emotion filled moment, and there isn't any real substance to it.

So I guess that kind of makes me a bit cynical about humans and their ablity to commit to something with all their heart for their entire life.
I'm pretty sure that's why there are people out there who choose animals for life companions instead of humans.
animals are more honest than people in the end.

I too have this issue. There is some fear lurking beneath me that a divorce may happen. I'd rather remain single, have no kids and live rich than pay child support to some bitch who used me and is keeping my kids because I'm the guy... and guys "are never the better parent".

I should be ashamed of myself.

That's an understandable fear. I know a couple of guys who have had kids with thoes kinds of women and have lost time with their kids because of problems that keep croping up.

I also know that the reverse is possible as well.

You have to know your self well enough to know whether or not you want to make a commitment with someone. And in this time in history when things are so transient it would seem that marriage is among the things people so easily throw away so to speak.

Commitment of any kind takes work. And from what I've seen and know about people commitment is a far off thing.
People say and do things, meaning well, but the truth is that it hasn't been thought through enough to be able to make a commitment without reservations or second thoughts.

Not so long ago things were different, people were more willing to commit for life, but now, well, we live in such a way that nothing truely lasts.

It's rare to see couples make it to 20 years anymore. It's more common to see couples break up with in ten years of getting together.

And to be honest that's kind of a sad satement on the human race of today.

A lot of people freak out when the twitterpation goes away, but the fact is, love is more than initial fascination.

I should be ashamed of myself.

twitterpation

This is completely and utterly superfulous to the conversation at hand but I simply had to point out that I started giggling when I read that! I kept thinking of old Loony Toons episodes.

--Jami

--Jami Yeah, that's gonna sting in the morning.

Your right about love being more than a fascination. It's a choice.

I do agree that modern times are more transient than the past. However, I don't necessarily see it as a bad thing that things are more fluid. The downside is that, while things are more flexible and changing than ever, people just haven't learned how to work with the constant motion of modern society. Maybe this is why marriages don't last and commitments fall through.

If the stresses of not being able to fully cope with a society that changes faster than your cell phone goes out of date, then how can that not affect a marriage? Naturally two beings dealing with the stress of ever changing life aren't going to handle it the same and if they're living close-quartered as in marriage then they're going to end up taking it out on one another. When it gets to the point that you've lost yourself in arguing and coping with life, nurturing a commitment to some one else that doesn't seem to agree with you on anything leads to a lack of willingness to make things work.

Really, what I think I'm trying to say is that love may not be at all a factor in the reasons why some people get divorced. I know the stress factor isn't an excuse, or maybe even a good reason, but learning how to manage your life on you own might need to come before an attempt at following through on a marriage? Maybe that's why marriages that last a decade fall a part out of a sudden. Life in 1996 was very, very different than life in 2006 and coping isn't always easy.

--Jami

--Jami Yeah, that's gonna sting in the morning.

I agree. Other things as well, growing in seperate directions.
Becomming strangers.

The first time I was married it lasted for 24 years. We simply grew apart.
The lack of work on being able to talk to each other and really work tord the kinds of change that needed to happen became evident when we started to try.

I found out lots of things about the man I had decited to spend the rest of my life with at a very late date that made me realize that staying was more than something I wanted to do.

I found out that no matter what I tried to do it wasn't good enough. No matter what I said it wasn't good enough.
What I found out was that I had become his comfort zone.

His idea of what a couple should be was this, after the kids are gone then you work on your relationship.
My idea of a couple was this, you work on it all your life.
Because people change, they grow, and life happens.

The speed of life in the currant age doesn't have to so invade a couple's life as to be a constant tear at it.
The largest single thing I believe that helps to survive is being able to really talk to each other, beyond the things that happen durring the day.

I still love the man, deep down inside, but not the way I did for a long time.
I want him to be happy. To be with someone who he can grow with instead of apart from.

Our divorice, by the way was a very quiet thing. There were no struggles or bitter actions anywhere.

Way back, when we were still dating we went to this weekend retreat for engaged couples.
I'm sure there are the same kinds of retreats today.
Out of all the things that weekend entailed it didn't cover the down the road stuff that happens.

The changes that people go through. And the need to remember there is more than one person involved in making a marriage work.
I believe it's possible to not only make a marriage work, but make it better with each passing year.
The problem is, the biggest one that I see is the day to day lessons that people live in before they say "I do."

We are taught by this fluid society that if your bored, go get something new.
We are taught impatients. We are a microwave society. Everything fast. Everything right now. I want this, I want that, and I want it now.

In the work place. In life. Everything at the speed that puts the compititon behind us.

That's what alot of people go into marriage like. That mentality.
And when things happen and go wrong, well, the ablity to talk and really listen just isn't present.

The question then becomes this, do you really love the person enough to put them before you.
I know it's more than that. I know for a long time, for many years I studied the man I was married to because I loved him.
I could tell what he was looking for by how he walked. I could tell details of things that most people never knew, because I made him my primary focus of interest all thoes years.

He didn't take that kind of notice of me until I told him I wanted a divorice.
Too little too late. But still I was willing to try to work through the lack of communication.

Funny thing, about 12 years into our marriage I told him we needed to go to counciling. He said we were fine.
He told me while we were trying to work on things at the end, that if I had threatened divorice back then he would have gone to counciling.

I was angry. I thought is that what it takes? A threat?
I got tired of having to scream to be heard, really heard.
What I have learned is that people are willing to speak but it's harder to really listen.
Hear what's really being said. What the eyes of the other person are telling you.

That doesn't seem to be there now. Just fast, impatient I want it now, and by the way I have no idea of what I really want, mc donalds or burger king kind of mentality going on.
And the approach to a life commitment is in the same frame work.
An escape hatch...if this doesn't work I can always get a divorice.