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I am so upset guys. I don't know how many of you are following the current events, but I got so shocked to read what those stupid Danish people have done lately. Let me recap everything here. First they start publishing idiotic strips insulting Mohammed and Islam (this was in September I think, and it was then followed by other countries such as Norway and France), then they repropose the strips just a few days ago, and the mess begins.

Of course this created lots of problems down in Muslimland, and they started burning Danish flags, being totally offended about how those people insulted their prophet (and they are even right in being upset!) I agree with saying that this is a little extremist, but definitely Danish journalists should have never published those strips. So lately they have been debating on what to do next. Their prime minister (another asshole) decided to defend the journalist, saying that they had the right to publish what they wanted (calling it right of free speech), and he refused to apologize for the misfact.

But today in the newspapers the worst possible thing: the Danish people started burning the Islam's sacred book, and said to all the Muslims that live there that if they don't like how things are done, they can just leave. I mean, how can you be more stupid?! That's really looking for trouble. And at a few days from the Olympic Games even, so that if possible Italy will be prey of terrorists because of Denmark.

What I am really praying for now is:
a) Denmark will be forbidden to participate to the Olympic Games (I think that our national security is at stake, and it is more important to defend our citizens than let those assholes participate to the games.)
b) Denmark will be obliged to apologize, or it will be kicked out of EU
c) Denmark will be obliged to apologize, or the rest of Europe will place an embargo on them, basically saying to fuck off and kicking it out of Euro.

I know that probably none of them will happen, even though I still pray for the point A. But I do think that Europe should dissociate totally from Denmark. It must be clear that they did that, not us, that they did not apologize, and that we do have nothing to do with them.

Here I will give you some link from CNN so that you can read this news for yourself. Really, I am totally pissed and disgusted. I have never thought that some European State could have done what they did, and I think that they should definitely apologize, because they are not worthy to be part of the European Union if they do not.

PS. I don't know if from there you'll also find a link to the most recent facts (the burning of the Koran), because it was on the Italian newspapers today, so I think it happened yesterday, and I don't know if CNN has already posted it.

Un bacio è un'apostrofo rosa scritto tra le parole "ti amo".

I do see both perspectives here, but i must say it does seem a bit of an over-reaction when you consider simpsons episodes with homer pretending to be Ganesh and so many cartoons depicting Jesus and God in many different ways...

people have the right to express themselves, but likewise people have a right to complain about disliking this expression. but abusing an entire nation or religion for the beliefs of a few just seems stupid to me.

my .02

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I certainly agree with you, Mel, but I think that this is not really free speech. I mean, free speech would be giving your opinion (even an impopular one) about something, and not just merely producing stupid strips that offend a religion. I have certainly seen several strips on the Pope, and he's the first one to laugh about them, but I have never heard of strips being insulting towards Jesus or God. Let's say that their "free speech" thing could cover their butts, but that shouldn't really be the the correct way to exercitate their right in free speech.

Secondly, another good point was that it was totally stupid and irresponsible to bring up something like that with all the problems Europe already has with the Middle East. It was an irresponsible act, and they should apologize and make up for what they have done. They should know by now what the Muslims are like. They should know well enough that they are ready to go there and blow themselves up in the name of Allah. Their act was irresponsible towards their nation to begin with, and towards the whole Europe too. I am afraid we'll have to pay the expenses now, all of us, for something that only one or two states have done.

And doing so at a few days from the Olympic Games was even more stupid, because it just means to give a reason to the terrorists to come here and blow themselves up. And I am afraid they will, unless Denmark apologizes, or unless Italy manages to refuse the Danish athletes to the Olympic Games.

Un bacio è un'apostrofo rosa scritto tra le parole "ti amo".

But is The Simpsons broadcast for free (I'm talking rabbit ears here) in the Middle East?

Please contiune to vote AND post.

Europe as a whole is extremely secular. Reserach has shown that roughly 50% of its population is atheist, that many more are practical atheists, and that the number of theistic Europeans is declining steadily. I honestly don't believe the hostility towards Islam, or religion in general, is characteristically Danish. I believe it was in France (correct me if I'm wrong) that a cartoon was published of Jesus with an erect member wearing a condom. Other such instances are easy to find throughout the continent.

What makes the actions of the Danish media so utterly mindless is that their work inflames not just the radicals and extremists--the ones who will respond violently--but also the moderate Muslims, the more peacful; coincidentally, the one's living in and immigrating into Europe. This insults all of them, and not just in the deep Middle-East--it is considered blasphemy and idolatry by nearly any muslim to depict their prophet in physical form. Much less a physical charicature.

The Danish media is inflaming the muslims that are slowly and steadily moving into their continent. What is so backwards about that is that these musilms should be the ones from which they ought to be seeking the most help. It is from the non-extremists living in Europe that Europeans should seek the strongest activism against Islamic fundamentalism. Depicting sarcastically an important religious figure of the culture that most hates them is a form of political suicide, and only damages the western effort in the war on terror. Muslims hate us precisely because our cultures (I include America) profess values that are utterly opposite of their own. And, as we see here, our opposition accretes itself into forms of open hostility as well.

-ecthelion-

While I agree with you that the Danish papers made a less than intelligent decision in printing the cartoon, that does not mean that the leader of the country has any right/obligation to apologize on behalf of private citizens of his country. If the press were run by the state, that would be a different situation, though it would also nullify the free speech argument.

What I am really praying for now is:
a) Denmark will be forbidden to participate to the Olympic Games (I think that our national security is at stake, and it is more important to defend our citizens than let those assholes participate to the games.)
b) Denmark will be obliged to apologize, or it will be kicked out of EU
c) Denmark will be obliged to apologize, or the rest of Europe will place an embargo on them, basically saying to fuck off and kicking it out of Euro.

As for this, it would be punishing the Danish government as well as the majority of its people for the mistake of a small contingent. Much like people have done to followers of Islam, applying the feelings they should have toward fundamentalists to all of them, resulting in more turmoil between the cultures and breeding more fundamentalists by giving credence to the claims that the west is the enemy of Islam.

First they start publishing idiotic strips insulting Mohammed and Islam (this was in September I think, and it was then followed by other countries such as Norway and France)

It was probably not intentional to forego mentioning this, but I felt it prudent to add that Italian and German newspapers also reprinted the strip.

This post was edited by baexcell on Feb 06, 2006.

First they start publishing idiotic strips insulting Mohammed and Islam (this was in September I think, and it was then followed by other countries such as Norway and France)

It was probably not intentional to forego mentioning this, but I felt it prudent to add that Italian and German newspapers also reprinted the strip.

This is partially wrong actually. All the newspapers I have seen (Italian ones of course) with the strips were condemning them, and their authors. Italy has also expressed itself in favor of the Muslims through our President, our Prime Minister, our Internship (ahem spelling here?) Minister, and our Defense Minister. Everybody was condemning those who stood for the strips. (And in fact the Muslims want a fatva against the Danish and the Norwish journalists, surely not against the Italians who simply reported the strips as information against the two incriminated nations).

Right yesterday on La Stampa there were a few long articles describing the worse and worse situation in Denmark. Now it seems that their products are boicotted (and I can certainly understand that), and the workers say that they are not worried, because if the companies will have to fire somebody, it will be the "dirty Muslims".

On the TV, in the news, they reported an interview with some "normal" ladies drinking tea in one of those bars around there, and they were saying that the Muslims have to go if they don't like freedom of speech. So, I don't think that the Danish are so innocent as you are depicting them.

Also, I know that the press is not run by the state of course, but I do believe that if they make a mistake that can offend other nations, then they should be obliged to apologize by the government, or the government itself should apologize for them. Failing to do so just means blowing this even more out of proportion. Like I said, we all know the Muslims; it is blasphemy to do what the Danish have done, and it is just a reason more to aggravate the situation both in the Middle East, and in the European States with the highest numbers of Muslims (and in Denmark, on a population of 5 millions of inhabitants, 200.000 are Muslims).

Also, to reply to Echelion:

Muslims hate us precisely because our cultures (I include America) profess values that are utterly opposite of their own. And, as we see here, our opposition accretes itself into forms of open hostility as well.

I disagree with you on that. They do not hate us because of our culture. They hate us because of what we have done to them. Not only back then when we went to colonize and bring our religion in their territories. But now. America has had (like UK) an imperialistic and expansionistic policy towards the Middle East. Instead of leaving them alone, we (because Europe is partially responsible for this, for not having managed to keep America and United Kingdom to do so) have gone to their home, and we took away their lands.

For what? For Israel. The winners of WW2 had the brilliant idea of creating a strip of land for all the Jews who had been prosecuted by Hitler, and look where they choose it? Right there, where the Muslims had been living for centuries. Now, do you think they appreciated this? I think not. I think that if someone came to Italy and said "now this part of Italy is not Italy anymore, because there is the need of having some land for these people here", do you think I wouldn't fight for my country? Why didn't they cut off a piece of America or United Kingdom for the Jews to live, and make their own nation? You could tell me that it's because Jerusalem is in the Middle East, but I think that's an easy and naive answer.

The Americans helped Israel, they helped Sharon, the nazi. And the Jews raised a nice wall to divide them from the Muslims. Not only, they keep saying that the space they have is not enough, and they threaten the Muslims with their nukes. And where did they get the nukes from? America of course, Bush. Now, a Muslim living side to side with a Jew has about 10 dollars a day to live, a Jew has about 100 (if not more).

You know, I would too hate America if they started to do such a thing here in Italy. If for example they started giving money to France, so that France decided to enlarge its territory (it's utopic, because we are all part of a whole single nation now, but I hope you get my point). So, Echelion, they do not hate us because of our culture, but because of us going to war with them, and helping their enemies to fight and win the battles. And precisely, they do not hate Europe, but they do hate America, and Bush in particular. I can't say I disagree with them. Then of course, they do have a bad way to demonstrate their rage towards us, but this is what their culture dictates to them.

I cannot say I am not scared. I can't say I am not the least worried, but I know that as long as we respect them, they won't harm us. America did not respect them to begin with, and therefore they got what they "deserved" (not that they deserved that in my opinion, but to the eyes of a Muslim that was the right punishment).

So while I don't like them very much, and while I do think that those people are scary, and while I think that they do not treat their women well, and they don't grant the liberty that our constitutions grant, I cannot say I don't understand why they act like this. And Denmark is now digging up its hole.

Un bacio è un'apostrofo rosa scritto tra le parole "ti amo".

This post was edited by andromacha on Feb 06, 2006.

This is partially wrong actually. All the newspapers I have seen (Italian ones of course) with the strips were condemning them, and their authors. Italy has also expressed itself in favor of the Muslims through our President, our Prime Minister,

Libero and La Padania re-printed the cartoons last Friday. Funny enough, La Padania is the mouthpiece of the right-wing Lega Nord which is part of prime minister Berlusconi's government.

SCNR :-)

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This is partially wrong actually. All the newspapers I have seen (Italian ones of course) with the strips were condemning them, and their authors. Italy has also expressed itself in favor of the Muslims through our President, our Prime Minister,

Libero and La Padania re-printed the cartoons last Friday. Funny enough, La Padania is the mouthpiece of the right-wing Lega Nord which is part of prime minister Berlusconi's government.

Well, first of all, I want to point out how those two "newspapers" are not real newspapers. I mean, not newspapers which have the right to be called that. In other words, take a few pot heads who don't even know exactly how to write in their mothertongue, put them in front of a computer (provided they can understand where to switch it on), and you'll have that kind of journalists.

Secondly, La Padania is not really the mouthpiece of Berlusconi. Actually, Lega is against several things made by Forza Italia and viceversa. I know you all are not very much into Italian politics, and me either for that matter. The only thing I know is that if the left wing of the Parliament (so Prodi, Rutelli and all those shit heads) it is a real tragedy :P

Also, Berlusconi didn't really need the votes of Lega Nord to win the past elections. But Lega alone wouldn't have had enough votes to have representatives in the Parliament. So they teamed together. It's true: this way Berlusconi had more votes and had a higher number of representatives on his side. However, Berlusconi and Bossi (and other "important" members of the Lega party) had their good fair share of dissense.

To those who think I am pro Berlusconi, I say: actually I am pro Fini :P He is less moderate than Berlusconi, yet his party is allied to Berlusconi's. Mainly I am happy with anybody who is not belonging to the left party. The communists (or those who like to call themselves that, but are not real communists) have already destroyed Italy more than once, and as long as my vote can help keeping them out from power, it will always be addressed to the right wing of the Parliament.

Turin is red unfortunately. The past elections we couldn't prevent it, and now we're paying the consequences of it, because our Mayor is someone who doesn't even know where he is turned. He made several mistakes with the Olympic Games, and we are likely to be laughed at by the other nations. I certainly hope that the next elections we'll be able to change things around.

Un bacio è un'apostrofo rosa scritto tra le parole "ti amo".