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who is one and three (sorry, I don't know how to call that "property" in English, but what I mean is that in the figure of God there are three figures: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost).

That would be the equivalent to our Trinity (three-in-one Godhead).

I mean, how can we just say that our God is the only God for every single human being? And what if we were wrong? What if the only God was Allah? No, I believe that whoever is Christian will be saved by the God he believes in, and whoever belongs to other religions will be saved by their own God.

There is a popular analogy used to show that all religions are valid ways to describe God, which is what you seem to believe.
Religion professors especially love this philosophic analogy, because it equalizes all religions, making all religions equally "true" in their description of God.

If your not familiar with the Elephant analogy (John Hick)- The analogy is this: there are four blind men who discover an elephant. Since the men have never encountered an elephant, they grope about, seeking to understand and describe this new phenomenon. One grasps the trunk and concludes it is a snake. Another explores one of the elephant's legs and describes it as a tree. A third finds the elephant's tail and announces that it is a rope. And the fourth blind man, after discovering the elephant's side, concludes that it is, after all, a wall.

Each in his blindness is describing the same thing: an elephant. Yet each describes the same thing in a radically different way.

According to many, this is analogous to the different religions of the world- they are describing the same thing in radically different ways. Thus one should conclude that no individual religion has a corner on truth, but that all should be viewed as essentially equally valid.

Ironically, while the elephant analogy attempts to validate the truth of all religions, if taken to its logical conclusion the story really shows that all religions fail to identify God adequately.

According to laws of logic and the historical realities of Scripture, religious pluralism cannot be true.

Now are ye undeceived! Welcome, again, my children, to the communion of your race!

For this reason, I don't necessarily think that there is only one single God.

Let me state to begin with that I am a Catholic Christian, so in theory I should be the most conservative about Christianity and all the other things that people think about the Catholics (most things are sort of wrong however).

They just dont go. I suggest you question your religious beliefs if you dont believe in one of the most crucial creeds of the faith.

Looking at all the other religions and what they have to "offer" just doesnt attract me:

•Hindus believe in 300,000 gods.
•Buddhists say there is no deity.
•Muslims believe in a powerful but unknowable & unmerciful God.

•Christians believe in a God who is loving and approachable.

In Hinduism a person is on his or her own trying to gain release from karma. In Buddhism it is an individual quest at being free from desire. And in Islam, the individual follows religious laws for the sake of paradise after death.
In Jesus' teaching, you see a personal relationship with a personal God - a relationship that carries over into the next life.

Why Christianity? Look throughout the major world religions and you'll find that Buddha, Muhammad, Confucius and whoever else all identified themselves as teachers or prophets. None of them ever claimed to be equal to God. Surprisingly, Jesus did. That is what sets Jesus apart from all the others. He said God exists and you're looking at Him. Though He talked about His Father in heaven, it was not from the position of separation, but of very close union, unique to all humankind. Jesus said that anyone who had seen Him had seen the Father, anyone who believed in Him, believed in the Father.

He claimed attributes belonging only to God: to be able to forgive people of their sin, free them from habits of sin, give people a more abundant life and give them eternal life in heaven. Unlike other teachers who focused people on their words, Jesus pointed people to himself. He did not say, "follow my words and you will find truth." He said, "I am the way, the truth, and the life, no one comes to the Father but through me."

Continuing with the Islam thread- Comparing the Bible & the Qu'ran, one can easily see the difference:

1) Bible- Salvation by grace through faith (Eph. 2:89)
Qu'ran- Salvation by sincerity and works (3:135; 7:8-9; 21:47; 49:14; 66:8-9)

2)Bible- Man is fallen, a sinner (Rom. 3:23) -Cleary evident.
Right?
Qu'ran- Man is basically good.

3)Bible- Miracles, numerous are witnessed & recorded.
Qu'ran- No Miracles recorded, except they claim the Qur'an is a miracle.

4)Bible- Makes numerous prophecies.
Qu'ran- Makes none.

Not to mention that Jesus has performed the greatest act of love
In John 15:13 Jesus said, “Greater love has no man than this, that he lay his life down for his friend.”

What did Allah ever do?

We can easily see the huge difference between the God of Islam and the God of the Bible. In Islam, God does not love all people. In the Bible, God does love all people. In Islam, Allah did not die for the sins of those who were not his. In the Bible, God did do that. In Islam, Allah has not performed the greatest act of love. In the Bible, God did exactly that.

My question to any Muslim is, "What makes you think that I want to give up my Lord who loves me so much that He would die for me, and did, for a god who has not and cannot perform the greatest act of love?"

Just a thought.

Now are ye undeceived! Welcome, again, my children, to the communion of your race!

This post was edited by Hardballkid on Feb 14, 2006.

Looking at all the other religions and what they have to "offer" just doesnt attract me:

Does that mean to say one should choose the religion that is the most convenient to him?

Consider yourself hugged.

Looking at all the other religions and what they have to "offer" just doesnt attract me:

Does that mean to say one should choose the religion that is the most convenient to him?

Lol this was great null! Really, it got a kick out of me. And, like always, I stand by what you said 100% Lol, I love your sense of humor ;)

Un bacio è un'apostrofo rosa scritto tra le parole "ti amo".

It wasn't meant as a joke, but thanks :-)

Consider yourself hugged.

Well, I know you didn't mean it as a joke. In fact, the correct way to describe it would be a sarcastic comment. And I just so happen to like your sarcastic comments a lot. But of course I can't deny the fact that it put a smile on my face, because it got me thinking that sometimes we really think alike. I would have written the same thing myself, if you hadn't beat me on time :)

Un bacio è un'apostrofo rosa scritto tra le parole "ti amo".

If your not familiar with the Elephant analogy (John Hick)- The analogy is this: there are four blind men who discover an elephant. Since the men have never encountered an elephant, they grope about, seeking to understand and describe this new phenomenon. One grasps the trunk and concludes it is a snake. Another explores one of the elephant's legs and describes it as a tree. A third finds the elephant's tail and announces that it is a rope. And the fourth blind man, after discovering the elephant's side, concludes that it is, after all, a wall.

Of course, then we could all be blind men groping an elephant in the dark while the real god is wondering what the hell we're doing.

If the world should blow itself up,the last audible voice would be an expert saying it can't be done

Looking at all the other religions and what they have to "offer" just doesnt attract me:
Does that mean to say one should choose the religion that is the most convenient to him?

Not at all. Intially thats why it put it in quotation marks, meaning to change it. Anyways, it was just piss poor wording on my part.

Thanks for the observation/correction.

Now are ye undeceived! Welcome, again, my children, to the communion of your race!

Sorry Rosy but that is an ideology I can't go along with.

Your choice. :)

Ecumenicalism, however, is less about finding the core of agreement as it is about compromising the core. Everything becomes negotiable. Opinions and convictions become interchangable. The Bible becomes a nuisance. Unity at any price is not unity at all.

Again, your opinion, and possibly that of many others, but there are also those who differ, myself included.

You see to ride the ecumenical bandwagon, one must throw Truth overboard. To agree to ecumenism is to agree to confusion. God is not the author of confusion. He is Truth, there is no error in Him, and He calls no one to preach a mixture, or to join with it.

... also your opinion; mine is different...that's pretty clear. Oh well, such is life. To hear him tell it though, God did "call" my Dad; but it could have been a miscommunication between him and God. ;p

The ecumenical movement wants nothing to do with the Christ of the Bible.

Again...your opinion, and probably that of everyone in your congregation. Everyone is different.

As a Christian...it is not about being accepted by people...it is about being acceptable with God.

Mm.

I understand the desire for peace on Earth, however, religious pluralism is not an option.

mmmmmm.

I have no desire to argue. You've stated your case, I've stated mine. I simply made a suggestion that maybe we could all learn to get along. I pretty much go along with Ecumenicalism and PLUR, but then...that is redundant. And saying that it is redundant is redundant. Which is even more redundant. :DDDD

Personally, I'm done with the conversation. Please pardon my humorous sarcasm. We won't agree. Period.

But, I like your name, and thanks for the suggested translation of the Koran from your other response to me. Nice to meet you again, Elijah, and to know your true name. :D

My mind is made up...not like my bed, which is a mess.

This post was edited by rosyxxx on Feb 13, 2006.

I found what you wrote quite interesting, and am inclined to do more research.

I was asked what translation of the Koran I would suggest to be read. I myself have not read all of the book(most of it though); however, I plan to finish it when I get more time to do so.

It has once been stated that "... The Qur'an cannot be translated. ...The book is here rendered almost literally and every effort has been made to choose befitting language… It can never take the place of the Qur'an in Arabic, nor is it meant to do so..."

With all that aside, here are two translations which I have heard to be the most accurate:

1986
Khatib, M.M., The bounteous Koran: A Translation of Meaning and Commentary (London, 1986). 1 edn.

+An authentic and faithful translation of the Qur'an in readable, fluent English. Contains a historically based 'Introduction' discussing Islam, the Qur'an and Sirah, and brief yet insightful notes on the circumstantial setting and the meaning of certain Qura'nic allusions and expressions.
=Suffers from a few inaccuracies in translation.

(& which I have)
"The Meaning of the Holy Qur'an," Text, Translation and Commentary by Abdullah Yusuf Ali, 1934.

(*Both by Muslims)

It is necessary that one reads the Hadith (the actual spoken words of Muhammad). They go hand in hand in revealing the religions hypocrisy and contradictive nature of the religion.

Here are some facts one should know before picking up a copy of the Koran (thus understanding the nature of its interpretations):

*90% of the Muslim world does not know Arabic
(That is because most who have accepted the faith are of the European, African and American nationality)
*70% of the remaining 10% do not comprehend the classic Arabic of the Qu’ran.
(That is because Arabic is a living language- it has evolved and changed over the centuries)
*The Arabic of the original Koran might as well be a dead language because of the languages evolution.

Well, they you are. Mind you I am no Islamic scholar or Arabic professor, however, from my modest knowledge of the religion, above is my suggestions.

So, I do encourage you to pck up a copy- to read it & weep (either because of its dogmatic words or because you fear for your life).

Now are ye undeceived! Welcome, again, my children, to the communion of your race!