Reading Current Events

Everyone's so passionate and determined that they are right, and open-minded, and that differing opinion is mere ignorance.

The problem is that it's not easy to have a matter-of-fact discussion with somebody who just can't stop assuming bad things about you and putting words into your mouth, and repeatedly makes questionable claims while reliably ignoring any requests for evidence or further information.

Consider yourself hugged.

That may be very true, but it's not my primary concern. My concern was the timing and placement of andromacha's response. Any criticisms should have been done in the other discussion, i just felt that it was inappropriate to be done after a post such as this one. The response was not really based on their post, but on the other thread and on them personally which i do not feel was fair. But, such is life. Time's are a changing, so i'll roll with it i guess, or beside it at the very least.

Look at me! I'm a prostitute robot from the future!

Oh, I see. In that case please disregard my latest post.

Consider yourself hugged.

*Looks around* what post? Where? I didn't see any post. ;)

Look at me! I'm a prostitute robot from the future!

Firstly this post was not about the arab israeli conflict
where are the jes doing the same to the arabs as the nazi' did to them?
I dont see it, i hear lots of wild claims, few true.
And i think if you check your history you will find that it was the arabs who started of all the hatred with the jews.
The jews exepted partition the arabs rejected it if they had not they would be two states today, israel won the territories in 1967 in a war of self deffence.
Now it appears you have a deep hatred of jews that leads you to demonise them, and an even deeper hatred for truth.
How foolish you are when some one holding an opposing view to yours, bothers you so.
Now a breif comment to the other replys to this post
you accuse me of thinking jews are so inocent, well are you not guilty of thinking the arabs are so inocent, acording to you they cannot put a foot wrong
and if opposing views to your own bother you so gratelley, what is the point to having this forum
and besides attacking me personally how about using fact and truth to try to argue your points.

well are you not guilty of thinking the arabs are so inocent, acording to you they cannot put a foot wrong

Jesus, it's this kind of black and white thinking that's precisely the kind of crap that's propagating the conflict in the Middle East.

Now it appears you have a deep hatred of jews that leads you to demonise them, and an even deeper hatred for truth.

How foolish you are when some one holding an opposing view to yours, bothers you so.

well are you not guilty of thinking the arabs are so inocent, acording to you they cannot put a foot wrong

And statements like these tell me that you either didn't bother to read what other people write, or just lack the mental capacity to actually get it.

Examples?

You read: "The Israeli government sucks"
You reply with: "You hate Jews"

You read: "Not all Arabs are evil terrorists"
You reply with: "You say the Arabs are innocent angels"

You read: "Please stop repeating the same things over and over again"
You reply with: "You can't take opposing opinions"

So would you say the Israeli government has never done anything wrong and represents each and every Jew in the world, and all Arabs are violent terrorists who want to wipe out the Jews and thus should be preemptively bombed before they get the chance?
'cause the way you keep whining that's exactly the impression I get.

Consider yourself hugged.

and if opposing views to your own bother you so gratelley, what is the point to having this forum
and besides attacking me personally how about using fact and truth to try to argue your points.

The only fact and truth I can see in your posts is your unbreakable stubbornness to have the ultimate truth for yourself and anybody else with a different opinion is automatically your enemy! Why don't you realize its *exactly* this attitude and behavior and nothing else, that creates wars. No one here is your enemy, stop *calling* anyone like that. Not everybody you CALL a terrorist automatically gets one, but some... some might only then get the idea. That's your responsibility about the situation - pun intended.

There is no doubt there are people within the Arab nation, who go too far in their choice of means to win, what they believe in. And its also without any doubt at all its the same on Israel's/the Western world's side. No one wants to blame you or Israel or the US or Bush or God or the weather for being the *only one* guilty for a global situation. But stubbornly repeating the same old - for every external observer so obvious - national propaganda doesn't change anything about the facts, that you so boldly try to bend for your needs.

You want facts, here are some:
Fact is, there are people dying on both sides.
Fact is, Israel is the only country in that area not belonging to the same
a) belief
b) defense pact
c) political alignment
d) genetic tribe
as all surrounding nations.
Fact is, the nation of Israel is an artificially installed construct.
Fact is, Israel is the only nuclear power in that area.
Fact is, while Israel is being attacked by single cuckoo individuals, Israel itself keeps retaliating with the power of a nation and its national military.
Fact is, killing civilians doesn't make it more right, if being done as retaliation.
Fact is, double standards are so much easier to see from the outside.
Fact is, each side claims to act in self-defense.
Fact is, physical strength - so strength of military - is proportional inverse to the strength of character.

And you know what, no other facts are relevant in this conflict for outsiders. It doesn't interest at all, who is wrong or right in his claims about history, guilt and being the victim. This is a ridiculous fight, and its even more ridiculous to hear repeated stories, how always the other side are the evil ones. That reminds me of myself, when I was 8 or 10 years old and always blamed my little brother for anything happened. Israel struggles to be accepted as a full member in the community of nations, like the former GDR always struggled with their own national self-esteem. You cant even call it a nation what Palestinians have. So, may be its just that, two kids trying to get attention and approval by the grown ups. They just have still to learn that crying and ongoing struggling is just a part of growing up, but there comes a time when you have to leave that behind.

After decades of construction my website is finally up an running: www.kkds.de

If you taling of the unbreakable stubourness of sticking to the fact (which you so willfully distort) than yeah im stuborn
your idea of moral relitivism is simply wrong.
The fact that israel does not have the same,belief, defens pact, political alinmente, and genetic tribe, meens what, that it has no right to exist becouse it doesnt fit in? Pointless fact.An an artificially instald construct, really
the land of israel has bean made a nation to only one people, the jewish people, there never was another indipendent political entity in that land, to call itself a nation, there have always been jews, granted in smaller nomber living there.
You wanna talk about an artificially instald constuct look at jorden.
Yeah israel is the only nueclear power in that area, diffrence is israel hopes to never have to use them, but they act as a deterance for israels many enemys who have tryed to destroy israel in 1948, 1967, 1973, and if they thought they had a chance in hell of winning would attack again.
I when you refer to single cuckoo individuals, you meen terrorist organisations like hamas, islamic jehad, fatah, ect..
Israel has the right, indeed the obligation to deffend her self,as a nation, no other contry would be expected to do otherwise.
The so called retaliatory strike are aimed at the terrorist who perpitrate them (who hide in populated areas, using there own people as human shields) there is a price to be paid for terrorist act and a price to be paid for a people who aids and abets the terrorist.Fact is unfortunatly some times inocents do die but the major difference is israel does not , target civilians, the terrorist do.
From what point you percive a double standard matters little, only if that perception in justified, does it matter.
Each side claims to act in self deffence, by that i suppose you are refering to hamas claiming that, last weeks pass over boming was self deffence, yeah like those 9 dead individuals posed a big threat to them, i suppose letting them live would have coused untold damage to them, like i said before the claim only means some thing if it is justified
and like i said israel has a right to self deffence if the arrabs put doun there wheapons they would be peace if israel put doun her wheapons she would be anialated.
Comparing the conflict to kids fighting may sound cute but in reality, israel is a tiny nation, home of the jewish people ,who tryed to live out side of israel and allmost got compleatly destroyed, a cuntry of our own is our only protection from that happening again, the arabs that call them selves palastinian have 22 arab contrys to live in, it has jorden wich is a palastinian state, but israel has tryed to make peace with them, the arabs have made clear that the only peace they will settle for with israel is no israel.

The fact that israel does not have the same,belief, defens pact, political alinmente, and genetic tribe, meens what, that it has no right to exist becouse it doesnt fit in? Pointless fact.

I just enumerated facts you were so eagerly asking for. I did NOT jump to conclusions as you said, that's a willful imputation!

Just for a moment lets assume you're living in Haifa, a silent little city, where you got all you need. One day some mighty organisation, lets say the U.N. for example, decides to settle down a wandering tribe of nameless Arabs. And to find a place for them they choose the Bahai-Gardens. Its quiet, no one actually living in the gardens, it has ancient Arab artefacts, just the right place for them. For how long do you think they would live there in peace? Do you honestly want to tell me, your people would let them live there in peace, while they steal even more land from you, build borders, fences, walls, build a strong over-gunned military and threaten the surrounding area with weapons of mass destruction?

Come on... wake up!

Of course Israel got its right to exist as a nation, no one with the least degree of understanding denies that, but does it have to be within the heart of a natural enemy? Sometimes I got the feeling Israel, and you as well as an individual representing your country, you *love* the role you're playing, yes, playing, and I mean it! The role of the Goldfish in a bowl of Piranhas! You bath with increasing paranoia in your fate, you leave no opportunity to moan about the bad world around you, how dangerous it is and still how tough you are not to give in. Do you expect respect and recognition for it? Of course, if you arm the Goldfish with harpoons, whenever he kills another Piranha, he would claim to do it in self-defense. But what's his business there in the first place, huh?

And to clarify, I'm not denying Israel's right to live as a more or less independent nation, I'm just asking, if there might not be safer places for ALL parties concerned.

An an artificially instald construct, really the land of israel has bean made a nation to only one people, the jewish people, there never was another indipendent political entity in that land, to call itself a nation, there have always been jews, granted in smaller nomber living there.

Ah, so before the nation of Israel was formed there was a black hole or something, right? The land did not belong to anybody, right? There have been small numbers of Yews, though, I see. And that's actually your justification for the existence of Israel in that area? You bet you would find areas in the U.S. Midwest, that are not as densely populated today like you mention it, and you could find as many Yews there as in all other parts of the world, cause the last time I looked being a Yew was a religion, not a nationality. But may be I'm wrong again.

You wanna talk about an artificially instald constuct look at jorden.

Yup, pointing fingers is always the wisest thing to do.

Yeah israel is the only nueclear power in that area, diffrence is israel hopes to never have to use them, but they act as a deterance for israels many enemys who have tryed to destroy israel in 1948, 1967, 1973, and if they thought they had a chance in hell of winning would attack again.

So, why not grant the same right of self-defense to any nation then? How many times Iran, Iraque and Afghanistan have been attacked... for lesser reasons? Really, do you honestly think I would trust your government - and to make that clear right now: ANY government - more, than any other government in the world when it comes down to talk about "self-defense" and "deterrence"?

israel won the territories in 1967 in a war of self deffence.

Would you please explain it technically to me, how you can "win territories in a war of self-defense"? In my book, I'm either defending what I have or actively taking away, what belongs to others.

I when you refer to single cuckoo individuals, you meen terrorist organisations like hamas, islamic jehad, fatah, ect..

Just because they are branded "terrorist organisations" doesn't mean they actually are. First and foremost Hamas and Fatah are religious organisations, fundamentalists, yes, but nonetheless just names for certain special forms of Islamic belief. What makes them "terrorists" is the existence of Israel at their doorstep. If Israel was founded, say, in North America, no one around the non-islamic-world would ever have heard that names.

From what point you percive a double standard matters little, only if that perception in justified, does it matter.

It matters little, I see.
Okay, may be you could help me understand a few things better and enlighten me with your knowledge, so I see your justifications.
Yews got a right for a homeland, Palestinians not. Why?
Israelian lifes are worth more than Arab lifes. Why?
Israel urgently needs nukes for deterrence, why not all nations?
Innocent dying in Israel is a terrorist act, while Arab civilians dying is an unfortunate but approving side effect.

9 dead individuals posed a big threat to them, i suppose letting them live would have coused untold damage to them, like i said before the claim only means some thing if it is justified

Then let me try to justify it, even if its sure as hell wont freeze over you wont understand it.
There is no army of Palestinians, they got no tanks, no military, no rockets, no nukes, no infrastructure. All they have is their lifes to put on the line. This is no war of two nations on a battle field after the rules of Napoleon. This is Tsun-Tsu-War, its dirty as dirty can be, and everyone fights with what he's got. You send out aircrafts loaded with rockets firing into public traffic claiming to have picked out a weapons truck (harhar). The others even sacrifice their own life to make you suffer. And you do, that's why its happening again and again! Because you get hit at a point, where it hurts, which you can not defend against, where your nukes just let you look ridiculous, where you get angry. THATS why its happening time and again, ...just cause its got effect (which again reminds me of my little brother, but alright).

the arabs that call them selves palastinian have 22 arab contrys to live in, it has jorden wich is a palastinian state.

Ah, okay, there is someone coming along telling you "okay, I'm living in your house from now on. Look, there are 22 other houses around here, go live there". And you pack your bag and walk along, right? But Israel OF COURSE got a right to be a nation! Talking bout double-standards...
Where exactly was "Palestine" again? In Jordan?

After decades of construction my website is finally up an running: www.kkds.de