Reading majic's journal

There is this stench in our society that fumes from the fact that people who would rather persue other avenues in their life rather than college are somehow 'stupid' for it. I am one of these people that, rather than sitting inside a classroom being spoon fed some ridiculous view of the world, decided to go about life in my own direction skipping the so called 'higher education' provided by our 'elitist' schools.

I've turned out just fine and I just can't be bothered with this negativity surrounding people that don't want to sit in a classroom for 4+ years after 12 years of school. Do people really think that just because you go to college and get that valuable piece of paper called a 'degree' that you are smarter than somebody that continues their life on their own terms? From where I am in society and the view I have of it I'd say "Yes" they definitely think that if you go to college you are movtivated and smart and if you don't you are lazy and dumb. That fact alone clearly indicates the level of incompetence that fumes from every orifice in our 'society'.

Going against the grain is fun, instead of giving in to your peers you should try to live on your own.

I think I agree in philosophy. I like what you said, how you said it. That's the kind of writing that I like. Pared down to the essence. No bandying about shady words, generalities.
What is most important? You're saying that a person with a degree is no better than any other working person.
Substantially, I agree. For the most part you are correct. That degree is basically a piece of paper.

I heard a man on NPR talk about pattern recognition. It was a fascinating discussion. He said that doctors are not any smarter than the average person, excepting the medical terminology. Their knowledge comes the fact that they've exposed themself to certain medical conditions more than the average, so they make that "professonal judgement" that it is X, or Y.
That is very informative, for a few reasons. First, because it brings up the issue "familiarity" that comes up with training. One becomes more familiar with something, so therefore s/he is "better" at said task than the average.
At it's best that's what a degree, or certificate, lic., etc. gives that person.

But average is merely a statistic, set, usually, at an arbitrary point. Same thing, in a sense, as one's sexuality, but that's an other discussion altogether.
One has to ask himself, across the board, isn't it better to hire someone with a license, or certificate? If for the fact alone, that the person MUST HAVE gone through some kind of training, to get it~

But then the whole point he was bringing-up was the fact that doctors who seen so many symptoms that are similar and common to whichever malady, resulted in the fact that statistically-speaking, they made more wrong guesses.
The thought process is removed. The doctor is now operating by rote, and the subconscious.

Part of a tru education is the ability for that teacher to learn the student how to think independently, and freely.
We should not stick with our old, rigid, idealistic notions of how the world works.
We can take the lessons of IBM, Xerox, Apple, Microsoft, and Windows, Napster, and now recently Virgin Megastores.
These old dinosaurs of institutions and what they're stood for will be the same.

Any person, or institution, which does not recognize your years oif computer experience toward standard academic credithours, is an institution who's values you shouldn't be concerned about. If it just so happens that that institution is one in the precious Ivy Leage, then there it is, another United Steel, ATT, or IBM.

The truth of the matter is that those things usually are paper mills. The secret is that the first 2 years of any college are the same, after that you declare a major.
You have 2 years "experience" in your chosen profession--but of course one doesn't. He merely has knowledge of somone elses' experience.
In your case, you have better, you have the book, and the practical experiences within your chosen field. Truth be told, I'm not sure what that is, but i'm sure it's interesting...and military related. Truth be told, your background gives you a better preparation for the rigors of the business world, than any college. The weekend starting on Thursdays isn't exactly standard business practice.

I think the thoughts that you're talking about are the same types of thougths as: outward appearences matter; the type of car you drive is an extension of your personality; love is forever, and it's free; might makes right.
Call this "old school" mentality.

Look at the internet morph our universe. Like a bright halogen light, it beacons those old, decaying institutions as a stumbling block to true democracy. As such, opinions of, for and from those institutes become moot, irrelevant.
They make buggy whips.

Once Fred Neitszche declared God is Dead, f*ck became the most important word in the English languag

This post was edited by zen on Nov 02, 2006.

What's so amazing is the fact that 6 people gave you a combined score of a whopping 82%, but nookne else has commented...

Hmmm~~

COME ON READERS...LET'S HAVE A DISCUSSION

((thank you, I feel much better.))

Once Fred Neitszche declared God is Dead, f*ck became the most important word in the English languag

This post was edited by zen on Nov 06, 2006.

What's so amazing is the fact that 6 people gave you a combined score of a whopping 82%, but nookne else has commented...

Nobody is as cool as we are, that's why... =)

Plus I fear I said it a bit too good and now I fear that there is nothing left to say on this. Haha!!!

I said it a bit too good and now I fear that there is nothing left to say on this.

Well... yeah, you did. :P

I suppose as a university student, I should defend post-secondary education. I feel that it's personally worthwhile for me (It's just fun :)). But you're completely right, it's not the be all and end all of knowlege and intelligence. I refuse to be "spoon-fed" opinions and worldviews, so I supplement and research anything I'm taught, and take all with a grain of salt. Knowlege and intelligence are developed through effort on the part of the individual, not delivered by a program or certified on a piece of paper... I think I'm starting to paraphrase, better end now. :P

You're here, aren't you? You're talking to me, aren't you?

Well, for starters you are right, going to a university or tech school of some sort for a piece of paper isn't the end all of getting somewhere in life.

That being said, I have something else to add. For some people, gaining the knowledge and experiance in the field of work they want to gain success in can't neccessarily be done outside of the academic world, or if it can, the chances of success are so small that it isn't worth the effort not to go to school. Take me for instance, I am in college and while I don't like some the excess bullshit I've had to do course wise, I highly doubt that I could get anywhere as an Art Historian if I weren't getting three levels of degrees.

While anyone can sit and read up on artists, their pieces, and any other book available on the history of art, that doesn't make one an athoritave or hireable figure in what is considered to be mostly an academic community. Since most people with degrees in the subject are college professors. The rest are museum curators and appraisors. Of the three careers the one an "uneducated" art historian has a shot of getting a job in is that of an apparaisor, and without certification saying you know what the fuck your doing you have (and this is not mathematically figured) about a .0005% chance of getting a job as opposed to the guy that does. Further more, chances are even more limited because the thruth of the matter is there isn't a high demand for museum currators, apraisors (art), or as I've just rememnbered critics. That's the other feild you've got a shot in without the degree, but even that is shakey. Any asshole can write a review of anything and post it on the internet or submit it to an editoral section of a news paper. Flooding actually kills your chances in that market.

However, in say the computer science feild, thanks to the open source community, and many other outlets for gaining the needed information, it's much easier to get somewhere in the field. Further more, comp. sci. guys have demand on their side. While there is a flood on the market of info tech folks, the need for them constantly rises with rapid rate in which this society techs itself out.

In retrospect, I should probably reconsider my field of study because frankly, my type of people are dying off like the appreciation for things that aren't shiny and come with a lot of moving parts. =(

--Jami

--Jami Yeah, that's gonna sting in the morning.

I know you started this thread year before last, but the beauty of this place is that anyone reading can pull up something and read it and then respond.
So here I am.

I went to college for about a year after highschool. I did it because it was expected. I studied art and theatre, and a bit of math. Most of the time I spent there I really wasn't there.
Like a great percentage of people who start and then stop going to school, it wasn't the right time to continue tradional school in a building or buildings kind of place.

But I kept studing on my own. I have studied art for many, many years now. I've designed a 3 year art study program. The problem is that I can't find anyone with enough drive to try the thing out. Makes me feel like I created something like howard hughs spruce goose.

What I have found in talking to people who've been all the way through formal school, is that after they are done it's still hard to get a job in their field.
I know this guy who is a physisist, I think that's how that's spelled, anyway, the guy works in computers, and has yet to find a job in his field.
So, he still had to pay for this expensive education but hasn't found a place that will hire him.

It makes me feel like maybe higher education shouldn't just be about getting a job in some field, but rather what higher education is, just more educated.

A lot of colleges now have on line courses, and there is always the stand by of auditing the classes.
No formal credit, but you can still take the class if you've a mind.
I have heard that it does cost something to audit a class which is alot cheaper than doing the sign up thing and paying tuition, but if a person is about the paper, than doing that really doesn't do anything but give you more education.

It would be nice if there were more apprentice programs because people could learn about something with the practical use for it and by the time they were done, it might be easier to get a job in that field.
I know that's the idea behind tech schools. I know several people who have opted for going to a tech school rather than the 4 or 8 or how many ever years it takes to become what ever.

That aside, whether a person goes to college or not, it's always a good thing to increase your knowledge, so in a way a person when they do that does become more knowledgeable and more of an authority on what ever they are learning about.

The best education I'm finding is the one where you look at something for yourself and test it out and find out if what the experts say is so is really so.
That's what everyone who goes through school should do anyway, test it all out somehow and find out for yourself if what they are feeding you is real or just retoric...I think I'm being a bit political here with that...

Anyway, I put my two cents in. :)

Hi Harold_Maude, sorry I didn't respond in a more timely manner. I am so busy with life, it's not even funny. Each year gets more demanding and I find myself with less and less free time to devote brain cells to places like Netalive.org. But without further ado, I'll add some comments to your post or rather clarify my position nearly 2 years later... =)

I don't have a problem with education per se, what I have a problem with is the "standard" way it's carried out. I study everyday, but there is no grade at the end of the year and I will not fail. The only cost of my education is the time and sweat I put into it, at my own accord... I do my studying on my terms and about the subjects that I find most interesting. I am all about education, learning, experimenting and most of all the art of creation. I am addicted to creating, I dream about creating, I constantly think about creating and to be quite honest it's like a medicine that I feed my brain when times get tough and the stress levels are through the roof. So in many respects it's a miracle drug that gets me through the brutal reality that is life.

Here comes a massive runon sentence...

So to fuel my thirst for creating, I study and study and try and at first get things wrong, I pick up my ego, try again, study more, and more and more and make little baby steps of progress and the self confidence grows....

The best education I'm finding is the one where you look at something for yourself and test it out and find out if what the experts say is so is really so.

BINGO! Yes... I couldn't agree more.