Reading Rocket's journal

Ok, so I created an account for netalive.org back in 2005 and am just now for the first time starting to use it. Call it a little lag, or a big nap, but I finally got back here :)

First things first, my official and most popular blog is at The Dragon Tail

Visit often and comment away :)

Second, I am so thinking of switching to Ubuntu. Windows (with the advent of Vista) has so many people pissed off, including myself, that if I am going to "relearn" ANY new operating system, then it wont be windows.

Third, if you live in America and are or are contemplating becoming an American Citizen, LEARN THE FREAKING LANGUAGE! If I wanted to live in Germany, or Japan, or any other country, the first thing I would need to do is learn to communicate in their native language, not force them to speak my language or change all of their restaurant menus to English or start offering all their governmental information in English just so I can get around their country. So why do we have to do that here in America?

If there ever was an accepted "universal" language, I am sure it would be English, that being said, why are we in America having to accommodate another foreign language here?

Until next time...

Welcome to NAO!

Having said that. . .

Third, if you live in America and are or are contemplating becoming an American Citizen, LEARN THE FREAKING LANGUAGE! If I wanted to live in Germany, or Japan, or any other country, the first thing I would need to do is learn to communicate in their native language, not force them to speak my language or change all of their restaurant menus to English or start offering all their governmental information in English just so I can get around their country. So why do we have to do that here in America?

A couple of things worth mentioning, beginning with the most snide and immature and moving towards the most relevant and important:

1) Do you speak Cherokee, Mohican, or Navajo? Oh, DO go on then.

2) I assume you're talking about the Hispanic "invasion" of America. Two states where this issue is most noticeable: California and Texas, two former provinces of Mexico into which we sent masses of white colonists who then turned around and decided that they wanted to be part of the good ole US of A. Just a thought.

3) It's actually not that uncommon in some countries to make certain things easier for minority languages. For example, the French/English bilingualism of Canada, or the legally mandated use of Slovenian on road signs and government buildings, etc. in certain parts of southern Austria (mainly, from what I gather, Kärnten). In fact, this multilingualism can be rather helpful, which brings me to the fact that

4) when a child grows up knowing two or more languages instead of just one, it tends to lead to a higher intelligence, greater capacity to deal with social and cultural differences, and increases their ability to pick up *other* foreign languages later in life.

I've never really understood the reluctancy with which Americans view the growing population of people in America who don't speak English. I've always viewed it as, at the very least, a chance to pick up a few words in Tamil, Mandarin, Spanish, or Xhosa. I mean shit, I know not everybody has the same capacity to learn new languages later in life, but how is that occasional inconvenience when you're trying to pick up a bag of chips or fill your tank with gas such a big deal? I do find it funny though, at the end of your post you say "accomodate another foreign language." Because in an historical context, that's exactly what English is in America. Foreign. :-)

In an attempt to salvage this post and seem less like the self-righteous asshole I am (I'm sure this whole thing came out way more standoff-ish than I initially intended), what exactly is Ubuntu like? I've heard a few people talk about it recently, but I don't really know much about alternative operating systems (just Windows and OS/X).

I'll believe in anything if you'll just believe in anything

This post was edited by Magnifico on Oct 15, 2007.

3) It's actually not that uncommon in some countries to make certain things easier for minority languages. For example, the French/English bilingualism of Canada, or the legally mandated use of Slovenian on road signs and government buildings, etc. in certain parts of southern Austria (mainly, from what I gather, Kärnten). In fact, this multilingualism can be rather helpful, which brings me to the fact that

not to forget about the Republic of Ireland: most road signs are both in Gaelic (Erse) and English. Also folks learn three languages in school: English and Gaelic plus a foreign language, mostly taken on is German or French AFAIK.

cu, w0lf.

Naturally, I love Jesus very much. I love him so much that I'd like to crucify him all over again.

This post was edited by ginsterbusch on Oct 15, 2007.

Ooh, or in Switzerland where it's feasible to grow up speaking at least bits of Italian, French, German, Romantsch, and then having to learn a "foreign" language like English. What's that like?

I'll believe in anything if you'll just believe in anything

Without going away from Italy, I can mention 2 of our regions: Val d'Aosta (Vallee d'Aoste) and Trentino Alto Adige. In the first one, there is bilinguism: Italian and French, and they also speak a mixed dialect called patuà. In the second one... well they like to speak German rather than Italian :P Not anywhere though, but only in the so called South Tyrol we were mentioning in another post. For instance: if you go to Trento, they will speak to you in Italian and wouldn't know German. But as soon as you move to South Tyrol you start seeing things written in two languages. Examples are even the cities which have both names: Bozen or Bolzano (sorry for the umlaut missing on my keyboard), Brixen or Bressanone, Sterzing or Vipiteno. Quite frankly, I prefer some German names to the Italian ones: maybe it's just me being crazy but Bressanone reminds me of big boobs :P so I prefer to call it Brixen. At the same time, I prefer to talk about Vipiteno rather than Sterzing. However, I gotta underline that I use the German names when I am speaking in German with my best friend Elena (yeah, my omonym) who also studied it, and can understand me just fine.

Oh and just to reply to the very first post: Hawkeye should give his contribution here, considering that he moved from the States to Italy and in one year he's learned the language in a fantastic way. He likes to say that Italians... well some are dicks others are wonderful people as far as language difference is concerned. His colleagues at work have always helped him out, especially at first. Some who studied English only in high school were making an effort to translate bits and pieces of conversation if they noticed he couldn't grasp. I don't think this happens anymore because he's so fluent in Italian already though.

It's true: Italians can be dicks sometimes. But hey, we are with our cousin French people who come to Italy and expect us to speak French to them and they don't return the favor when they find Italians being in France on holiday. I don't hide it: I hate most of the French unfortunately. I know it is wrong, I know they're not all like that, but too bad that all the ones I've met were like that. First time I am in Charles de Gaulle (Paris airport) on my way back to Italy from the States, I find a bunch of jerks who understand perfectly what I am asking in English, but reply me only in French. I was on the verge of tears, almost losing my flight, when the bit of French knowledge that was in me started to come out, and I managed to get my butt back home. The point is that they refuse to speak English even though it is the first language of the European Union, and I cannot accept that.

Also, to reply to the very first post, English has become the lingua franca simply because of the hegemonic power of England at first, and the United States later. Think about what the British have done with the Commonwealth... (and I am at a loss of words when I think about that). Certainly I hope that it will keep being the lingua franca (so I don't have to learn another one), however in my mind there is always the fear that English will be sooner or later comparable to Latin. Latin was the lingua franca throughout the first part of the Middle Ages, even were there were already vernacular languages (vernacular English, Italian, German... well not precisely German, but take it as it is). It was still used by the scholars even later, especially to write down legal acts and so forth (in particular in Italy of course), but it was soon abandoned completely, and vernacular languages started to take its place also for what concerned laws and important things.

Now of course languages will keep changing, but I doubt it will be radical changes (even though certain philologists expect German to lose completely its cases, endings and everything, and be more similar to English - to which I say that it will take still a few centuries), so maybe English wouldn't be replaced by an advance copy of itself, but rather by another language. And language importance is strictly connected with the power and the prestige that a country has in this context of globalization. So... let's think about China for instance. What tells me that I won't be studying Chinese 20 or 30 years from now, because Chinese will have become the new lingua franca?

This should make us reflect. Really. It's not that if you know English, then you're okay for life. This is the common mistakes that many English mother tongue speakers make. They think that English will be understood everywhere. Well, as I stated before, there are already a few examples that don't meet this idea. Personally, I like to study different languages, because I think that the best way to approach a person is to use their own language. I like to go visit places and speak the language. I know... in Germany they speak English, and they speak it well, but I have noticed how pleased they are when they realize that I can speak their language. And hey... receiving compliments for how you speak a foreign language is always flattering, isn't it? :)

Anyway guys... sorry... I got myself going, but most of you know that I love foreign languages, I love foreign cultures, and when I start talking about the stuff I study... well I just begin talking (or writing in this case), and I never know when I am going to stop. I hope I haven't annoyed you to death :P But for those of you who are interesting on me translating the Beowulf or some weird Old English homilies... well just ask :P I am allomahtig (almighty) ;)

Un bacio è un'apostrofo rosa scritto tra le parole "ti amo".

Well, where (and at the time) I went to school, English (and Latin) were still voluntary. Of course almost everybody signed up for that class, because English was cool.
French, on the other hand, was compulsory. I remember hearing of some kind of agreement that every nation should teach a language of one of their neighbouring countries'. At some higher schools you could choose whether to study French or Italian. (Switzerland borders on France, Italy and three German-speaking countries.) In most schools in the French part of Switzerland German classes are compulsory, needless to say that the students hate it.
At school I've always preferred English, mainly because it's easier to learn and most people understand it. Also, it's the language that most song lyrics and computer games come in.
I gotta say though, I think that French is just as important to me. Not only because I love Southern France, but also because a large part of Switzerland's population, including many of our business customers, speaks French. Add my somewhat paltry Italian and I can visit any place in Switzerland or its neighbouring countries and not die of hunger.

As for diversity, English will probably continue to replace any other foreign language skills. Which is a good thing because it's more universal than any other language... but which is also a bad thing because a large part of any culture is based on its language, and most of that diversity will be lost in the process. I mean, there's just no translation that could do a term such as "savoir-vivre" or "oualla" justice... and apologies, but no country's arsenal of swear words is nearly as beautiful or varied as those of Italy and Finland.
Also, with English as the only language you might get along just fine in large cities but be hopelessly stuck anywhere else.
For all I know the French are doing a lot to protect their culture. I think there's a quota on how much french music radio stations are required to play, they're reluctant to adapt abbreviations and buzzwords in foreign languages, and of course most people in France (or Switzerland) will give you a hard time talking to them in any language other than French. (On the other hand, when they can see that you're making an effort, they usually become very helpful. I've been told that the best approach is to obviously struggle to make yourself understood in French for a while and then ask "parlez-vouz anglais?". I can also order my meat "medium" when I've forgotten that they call it "à point".)
Funny enough, I've also met and observed lots of people in England and Scotland who won't understand a word of what you say in American English until they learn that you're not an American, after which they'll understand you just fine. I guess national pride isn't exclusive to France. Heh.

Consider yourself hugged.

but no country's arsenal of swear words is nearly as beautiful or varied as those of Italy and Finland.

*Ahem* this is because you haven't heard a Spanish speaker yet my dear :P Okay, I will admit it: in Italy is rather common to say words like "cazzo, minchia, merda.." (I won't provide a translation here) in a normal conversation. Girls of course tend to do this less often *blush*. But when I heard some Spanish guys speaking with each other... man I thought that they were even worse than the Southern Italians :P Let's say that there is a distinction here; people of Northern descent are more polite than people of Southern descent. I am half Northern and half from the Middle Italy, and therefore... well derive your own conclusions :P

Ah before I forget, a funny thing about these nationalistic languages. Did you know that in French and Spanish a computer is not called like that? Respectively it's ordenateur and ordenador; they also call the mouse differently: it is raton in Spanish, but I don't remember it in French.

In Italy there was an attempt to call a computer in Italian when the machines were first made. Now some people still use it thinking to be fancy, but I find it rather ridiculous. The word provided for that was calcolatore, which rather than a real computer (e.g the one we all have in our homes) recalls more the old Monroe model or those computers that could barely computate and play chess with you taking 30 minutes to think of a move to make. My dad had an experience with one of those at the university... I don't really remember if it was chess or that game in which you have to fill in a grid with circles or stars, but he has always amused me when he brought that up... "oh yeah, I made my move, then I went to smoke a cigarette and work a little bit in the lab, and by the time I came back the machine had finally decided what to do next". I think it is hilarious if compared to the computers we have nowadays.

Un bacio è un'apostrofo rosa scritto tra le parole "ti amo".

Beautiful: probably. But varied? Nope.

Try bavarian instead. Himmiherrgottsakra no amoi! Hoast me, du ausgschamerta Hundslump, du!?!

cu, w0lf.

Naturally, I love Jesus very much. I love him so much that I'd like to crucify him all over again.

This is a good reply. Its hard to meet very controversial statements without seeming like an opinionaed asshole, but opinions are like that, we all have them.

We said on the languages of the American "Indians", by rights that's what we should be speaking here. Instead we brought them the Old English, which is foreign to us nowadays.
Exactly the point, modern American English is very foreign.

The Cranesbill--a surprising pick by Emmet.

Magnifico, thank you for your comments, and questions. I believe you severely misunderstood my post, however I will answer the questions you have.

1) Do you speak Cherokee, Mohican, or Navajo? Oh, DO go on then.

Yes, Lakota Indian and
Sioux, however my ancestry is French Indian on my great great great great grandfathers side Chief Labelle. I fully, and whole heartedly understand that English is not the native language of this country. I also support every single American Indian who pushes the issue that we ALL speak Indiana as the native and primary language of this country. Communication and language in this country should be Indian first, English second.

2) I assume you're talking about the Hispanic "invasion" of America.

And there we have a prime definition of assume, As I was speaking about the Eastern Indian (India), Korean, Pakistan, and Trinidad.

I should have prefaced earlier, but will do so now to help clear things up. I am a military vet, and my post was based on recent experiences with technical support. As a matter of fact, based on many phone conversations over the years. When I call a company in America (mainly technical support) and you get Non-English speaking folks, its very frustrating. One has to ask, why are they answering a phone, in an English speaking country, in a foreign language and expect to be able to help? As rhetorical as that is, I completely understand and accept the many languages spoken in our country and have no issue whatsoever with foreign languages being used here. I have no issue whatsoever of anyone speaking a foreign language while standing next to me on an elevator or wherever. It doesn't bother me at al. What does bother me (and again this comes from my military experiences overseas in foreign countries),it is a common courtesy to at the very least try and learn the language of the country you are visiting. As expressed earlier in other comments, this effort is for the most part well received and show courtesy and respect to your host (country). To take it a step further, if I were intending to become a citizen of a foreign country, I would most certainly, without question, learn to speak the native tongue, no matter how many dialects or languages that entails. Again, this was not the intent of my post.

4) when a child grows up knowing two or more languages instead of just one, it tends to lead to a higher intelligence, greater capacity to deal with social and cultural differences...

I agree with this 100% as was indicative of my year stationed in Iceland and having learned that they have a 97% ;literacy rate and graduate high school speaking Icelandic and fluent English as a requirement.

Please understand I am not reluctant toward a multilingual, multicultural, America. My feeling has always been that all are welcome and all free to express themselves any way they see fit, BUT at least show some common courtesy in trying to learn the language most especially if you want to become a citizen and work in an English speaking country. The effort speaks volumes.

As for Ubuntu - Ubuntu is a community developed, linux-based operating system that is perfect for laptops, desktops and servers. It contains all the applications you need - a web browser, presentation, document and spreadsheet software, instant messaging and much more. Ubuntu is and always will be free of charge. You do not pay any licensing fees. You can download, use and share Ubuntu with your friends, family, school or business for absolutely nothing.

Ubuntu is an African word meaning 'Humanity to others', or 'I am what I am because of who we all are'. The Ubuntu distribution brings the spirit of Ubuntu to the software world.

For more on Ubuntu see http://www.ubuntu.com

Amazingly enough, the very definition of Ubuntu relates to this thread.

Andromacha (andromache - (Ancient Greek: Ἀνδρομάχη)) meaning "battle of a man" also wife of Hector,
Thank you for a great read on your comment. I can not change history, but I am ashamed that this country started with pilgrims and indians sharing land, friendship, and breaking the barrier of dissimilar spoken languages in order to communicate and bond, to have it all washed away by overpowering the indians, stealing their land and almost obliterating them into extinction. Not being able to change the past should never preclude understanding, accepting responsibility for and learning from it as well as using that knowledge in our everyday living. All the more reason for us to be giving back to the owners of this land, and acknowledging the heritage and authority they should have here today. This could turn into a whole new thread on the rights of the American Indian, but I will save that for another day.

THank you all very much for participating here.

This post was edited by Rocket on Nov 30, 2007.