Reading Rating Complaints

Do all posts have to be dead serious? I think the comic contributions to a thread are just as important as the long 3 page posts about the thread. What would drama be without comedy? They go hand-in-hand. Shakespeare, as I'm sure all of you know, used comic relief in his plays to lighten the mood of the audience. http://www.netalive.org/run/topics/5000?unreadonly=1&find=unread#unread

My point being that yellow ratings should only be given to any post that wasn't given much thought. Red ratings should only be given to posts that are offensive in nature. And I might add I put plenty of thought into that joke just as I'm putting much thought into this one as well.

Can't we just live in a world where we all give ourselves green ratings? Obviously that won't be the case, but green ratings should be done by DEFAULT! Yellow and red, in my opinion, is a demerit and doesn't deserve to be delivered to an undeserving victim simply because the rater puts yellow if something inspiring or uplifting wasn't presented before him in the post.

Can't we all just strive to be better people and give green ratings? I think we can. :)

"If I die of a heart attack eating bacon, I'll be a happy man." -My father

This post was edited by Hawkeye on Sep 04, 2002.

This post was deleted by request of the author.

I wonder how many people just post to get ratings, somehow I think that defeats the whole purpose right?

More than I like to believe thinking about how often this topic comes up again and again, how often people are complaining about a special rating behaviour of others. Why is it so damn important at all?? If we'd just understand its NOT an instrument to determine a ranking of good and better members, but to fight possible idiots attacking NAO! Everything beyond the first orange star doesn't matter anymore at all. Whether you have 3 red or 3 white stars doesn't make a difference in everyday use of NAO at all. So any single rating, whether its green or red, doesn't have any noticable effect for normal users (besides making some people cheer or cry obviously). Try to understand that and the whole rating business will lose its undeserved importance!

After decades of construction my website is finally up an running: www.kkds.de

The point is now where do you go beyond having three white stars? Why is a green post worth anything now?

You can sort NAO's user list by rank and see what position you're at. :-) I'm currently at position 2 (second to Jaz), but Martin will probably overtake me once more soon. Hell, I'll need some green ratings to stay ahead of him. And I shouldn't have given him that green rating right now. Help!!

Seriously, call me naive if you want, but I think most higher-ranked NAO people are (should be) above such ranking fights. If you write a good post, write it for the sake of writing a good post, not because of the positive votes you might get for it. After all this place is about friendly discussions, not about who's got the bigger pipe!

I wonder how many people just post to get ratings, somehow I think that defeats the whole purpose right?

Do you? Who does?

"*sigh* Some men are really hard to manipulate!" - Orchid

I'm currently at position 2 (second to Jaz), but Martin will probably overtake me once more soon. Hell, I'll need some green ratings to stay ahead of him. And I shouldn't have given him that green rating right now. Help!!

LOL! You can cry for help as much as you please, there's no escape! To say it with "Bauer Joghurt": sooner or later we'll get you! HAHAHAhaha....

What d'you mean "once more"? Have I been at p2 already and lost it again? Tssss..., what a shame. Sorry, have to be off to think of some nice, important, long and impressive topics to post on NAO to collect MORE (yeah) greens and if I dont get I'll start crying at once and dont dare to rate this one yellow or I will hold my breath until you take it away again and I will never EVER talk to you again and you wont be my best friend anymore and I'll call my big brother so he will beat you up.

:-D

After decades of construction my website is finally up an running: www.kkds.de

:-)

You don't have a big brother.

"*sigh* Some men are really hard to manipulate!" - Orchid

You don't have a big brother.

Shit, how did you know?
Okay, don't tell anyone, promise?

After decades of construction my website is finally up an running: www.kkds.de

I wonder how many people just post to get ratings (...) Who does?

Me!!! Me does!

No, not exactly. I post because I want to add or discuss something but I am always sad when my posts don't reach someone's "ear" and get rated anytime I think I wrote something good :-)

"Sie wollen nichts anderes. Sie wollen kämpfen! Sie sind Soldaten! Fucking Wahnsinnige!" - Noel G.

I disagree. I only give green ratings for posts that, IMHO, are well written and have cost the writer some time to think about what they're trying to say. An average post usually doesn't get rated by me at all.

A yellow vote is still half-green. It's positive, not negative. Please do keep this in mind!

Plus, imagine the chaos if everybody had their own idea of what the three ratings mean.

Obviously that won't be the case, but green ratings should be done by DEFAULT!

How would you rate an above-average post then? Double-green? It wouldn't change anything, except making things more complicated. The green rating would only be changed to what 'no rating' does today. Same stuff with new colors.
Even a post with no ratings at all will get you ranked up, so what if not all of your posts get a green rating by every user?

Why do I feel like a yellow rating is just as bad as a red one?
(frank)

Because yellow is associated with negative feelings. We've already had a discussion whether to give it a slightly yellowish green, remember? :-)
Still, a yellow rate gets you ranked up, not down. It's only the color that's confusing.

No offense meant and stuff, but why is it so hard to just follow NAO's guidelines for rating? Trust me, Jaz has put many hours into making the rating system work well for everybody. All it needs is correct input, i.e. users who stick to those very basic rules.

Just follow NAO's guidelines for rating, don't cry when you don't get a green rating for everything you write, and everything will be just fine! That's the way the site works, anything else is counterproductive. GIGO, or "Garbage In Garbage Out". The site needs correct input in order to work properly. Correct input is input which follows these simple rules. Ofcourse there's a million ways to implement different rating systems, and that's perfectly okay for me. Just let's settle on one standard we all use.

"*sigh* Some men are really hard to manipulate!" - Orchid

This post was edited by null on Sep 04, 2002.

I totally agree with you, Hawkeye. I think that the comic part is important in every thread. There was an Italian writer, Luigi Pirandello, who gave great importance to comical and humorous part in a thread. He distinguished comic and humorous though.

Here is one of his stories which can show you my point of view. There was an old woman who used to put a lot of make-up on her face. Her face looked like a carnival mask, and everyone made fun of her. That's the comical side of the thread, which turns into humorous as soon as Pirandello says that the woman used to have so much make-up to try to appear young and beautiful.

My point is that everyone here shouldn't give a yellow or a green without thinking about it. And, null, a 2 lines post doesn't always deserve a yellow. Every rater should try to imagine the point of view of the writer when he wrote that post, and only in that way he can decide whether to give a green or a yellow rating.

I'm not defending Hawkeye, because I hope you understand I am impartial. I often posted something against his ideas (especially on the US attack to Iraq). But now, I find it unfair that someone rated him yellow for his post on cookies. It was just a funny thing. At the very least, you could avoid to rate him. And I also don't think it is fair that more than one rated me yellow for the post following Hawkeye's one.

And now, since we are here, define which is the actual difference between a well written and an average written post. You'll see that everyone has his opinion about that. So, if you aren't sure about what to do, just don't rate posts.

And, null, just to point out something... Hawkeye wrote a good post here. It was a well written post. I guess it required some reasoning to him. So why did someone give him a yellow? He didn't deserve it at all.

Honestly, I am sure that I will get more than one yellow from you all for this post of mine. And you know why? Because you don't agree with my opinions. This doesn't mean that my post isn't well written though!!!

Un bacio è un'apostrofo rosa scritto tra le parole "ti amo".

This post was edited by andromacha on Sep 04, 2002.

And, null, a 2 lines post doesn't always deserve a yellow.

I've never said something like that. It wasn't me who rated him yellow, either. In fact I didn't rate any of his recent posts because I didn't have any strong feelings towards them.

Every rater should try to imagine the point of view of the writer when he wrote that post, and only in that way he can decide whether to give a green or a yellow rating.

D'accord. :-)

But now, I found it unfair that someone rated him yellow for his post on cookies.

Why is this unfair? After all it's better for him than no rating! And people are free to give whatever rating they think is appropriate, as long as it's not abusive. And I don't see any abuse here.

And, null, just to point out something... Hawkeye wrote a good post here. It was a well written post. I guess it required some reasoning to him. So why did someone give him a yellow?

Probably because somebody thought a yellow rating would be appropriate?
Look, that's the story with different opinions again. If you find that the post deserves a green rating, just rate it green! If somebody else finds that the post deserves a yellow rating, well, then he will get a yellow rating.
It's that easy. :-)

"*sigh* Some men are really hard to manipulate!" - Orchid

Everytime new users join NAO and keep posting more than 5 messages you can bet it takes about 4 weeks to start this discussion again. Hawkeye and andromacha, you dont see the point in rating posts! There is absolutely no room for interpretation, there are rules as null pointed out before. Please read the old threads when Chris rejoined or when RCD joined. The rating system is basicaly there to keep possible threats out of NAO, not to boost or lower your friends and foes!

The basic misunderstanding is you feel that a yellow rating IS A PUNISHMENT!! IT IS NOT! There are 4 stages of rating: green, yellow, no rating and red. What you dont see is the fact that green AND yellow ADD to your "score", while not rating doesn't change it and a red lowers your score. So if someone decides to give a yellow, he or she thinks the post deserves a read, "good reading" as it says in the rules. I absolutely cant see anything to be sad or angry about. NOT RATING a post is much worse because it says noone was interested in what I said. If I get a yellow, it says someone enjoyed reading my post, nothing else. At least thats how the yellow is intended to be. Rating aint got nothing to do with how I like or dislike the opinion or the author. Please try and understand that...and act like that!

What d'you mean "someone didn't deserve a yellow rating"? How can you decide whether or not someone enjoyed reading a special post or not?? Its basicaly that you did not understand what it means to give a yellow rating at all. As long as you think yellow ratings are there to punish someone and green ones are there to reward the author there's a major misunderstanding. YELLOW IS BETTER THAN NOT RATING. And hoenstly, I'm tired of this permanent complaints about how bad someone was treated. We are all old enough to understand how rating is intended to work...I thought.

After decades of construction my website is finally up an running: www.kkds.de

This post was edited by Martin on Sep 04, 2002.

So, basically green stands for well written, and yellow stands for "I enjoyed reading your post". Then I don't see the difference between rating green or yellow.

Probably when you give a yellow to someone, that means that his/her post wasn't well written, but that you liked reading it. Okay, I can agree with that, Martin. But now I need to know what "well written post" stands for. Grammatically well written? Interesting? Which are the criteria (sorry for the latinism) we should use to decide whether a post is well written or not?

I don't want to polemize on that. I just need some answer to better understand NAO and its policy. Hawkeye and I didn't complain about our yellow ratings. We are just wondering why someone gave us a yellow. Null said that he gives yellow when he doesn't think that the writer put his heart in what he wrote. Well, how can you decide that?

Frankly, since you brought up this thread I've been getting confused. And, I don't give greens or yellows to my friends or foes. If I don't like what Hawkeye or null or orchid say I don't always give them green. That's just to point out a couple of things.

Oh and it's better you don't say that a post is well written based on the English skill of the writer, or you'd deserve a couple of yellows more than what you've gotten until now. I'm not saying I am an English master, because I am not but I really hope that a well written post doesn't have to do with an excellent English grammar.

How the heck should I decide if a post is well written or not?? That's the only thing I want to know. And don't tell me to go and look at NAO's rules or whatever. Because there it's written to give green when you think that a post is well written.
So, now I am asking, "What does well written mean?"

Un bacio è un'apostrofo rosa scritto tra le parole "ti amo".

So, basically green stands for well written, and yellow stands for "I enjoyed reading your post". Then I don't see the difference between rating green or yellow.

There's a public search function available you might have tried:
here is the answer
read the thread, not the article.

Oh and it's better you don't say that a post is well written based on the English skill of the writer, or you'd deserve a couple of yellows more than what you've gotten until now.

Mind your words, darling, flames are also covered within the rules.

After decades of construction my website is finally up an running: www.kkds.de

This post was edited by Martin on Sep 04, 2002.

Probably when you give a yellow to someone, that means that his/her post wasn't well written, but that you liked reading it.

To quote Jaz once more:

Give a positive vote...
for really well-written and thought out posts, regardless of whether you agree or disagree with the author.

Give a neutral vote...
for posts that are good reading, but nothing too special.

Or, more simple, "a yellow vote is half a green one."

Null said that he gives yellow when he doesn't think that the writer put his heart in what he wrote.

Uuh, excuse me, but when did I say that? Because it's not exactly true! I give green votes when I think "bravo!" after reading the post, and yellow ones when I think "well this one's not bad." That's all, and yes it's very subjective, but after all that's what it's supposed to be. :-)

As for the grammar and stuff. Few non-English NAOees have made their Cambridge Proficiency yet (I know I haven't :-) ), and that's perfectly okay. Grammar should only be rated (down) if the writer obviously is too lazy to type correct words or uses 'l33t sp33ch.

On a side note, who thinks there should be an NAO FAQ with an exhaustive "rating" section?

"*sigh* Some men are really hard to manipulate!" - Orchid

Null said that he gives yellow when he doesn't think that the writer put his heart in what he wrote.

Yes, I am sorry. I jumped to conclusions, and I apologize. I misunderstood what you wrote on green ratings and I got misleaded.

As for the grammar and stuff. Few non-English NAOees have made their Cambridge Proficiency yet (I know I haven't :-) ), and that's perfectly okay.

Excuse me, but PET really sucks. It is an idiot test which anyone can pass with merit without problems. I myself passed it with merit, getting excellent in every subject graded. I hope you were kidding when you gave importance to that silly certificate.

Un bacio è un'apostrofo rosa scritto tra le parole "ti amo".

Actually I'm not talking about that PET thing (Preliminary English Test) but about the CPE, which basically means that people can't tell the difference between you and a native English speaker. I've had to pass that PET thing too as part of my school diploma, and it's very basic stuff. But that's not the point, all I'm trying to say is that you're allowed to make mistakes without getting rated down. I mean, our English is still way better than most other NAOees' German or Italian. :-)

"*sigh* Some men are really hard to manipulate!" - Orchid

:) Yeah, we are really good at English :P

Un bacio è un'apostrofo rosa scritto tra le parole "ti amo".

On a side note, who thinks there should be an NAO FAQ with an exhaustive "rating" section?

Good idea! :-)

"Sie wollen nichts anderes. Sie wollen kämpfen! Sie sind Soldaten! Fucking Wahnsinnige!" - Noel G.

This post was edited by Orchid on Sep 04, 2002.

On a side note, who thinks there should be an NAO FAQ with an exhaustive "rating"

Well, I had given that suggestion long back when we had the ratings discussion after I got a little irritated after my experience with the orange ratings.

But now I feel that instead of a FAQ (which most people will hardly read, and most of the times others have to just point a link to the FAQ whenever this topic comes up - which I am sure, will arise again), we can have a separate forum named "Ratings".

I believe that the amount of discussions on this topic so many times is enough qualification for it to have it's own forum. So, everytime someone doesn't understand what are the ratings for, instead of looking in the FAQ (which sounds boring too sometimes), they can look it under the Ratings forum. :)

Love is blind, but marriage is a real eye opener.

On a side note, who thinks there should be an NAO FAQ with an exhaustive "rating"

I agree with RCD, just a FAQ wont be enough. I mean, we saw it just now again, there are rules written down, but nobody seems to read, not even notice it. So why should just a FAQ page be more attractive to new users?

Maybe a forum is a good idea. We should ask Jaz to redirect all threads regarding rating discussions we had so far to this new forum, so everything ever said on this topic would be at the same place for the user's convenience.

And questions like this might be posted there too:
Right now that we're talking about this stuff, right now that I think everybody reread the guildline to rating, how the hell can it be that this post gets a Red? I mean, okay, its not that especially eloquent, but its not spam, nor a flame and I cant see the asshole behind the post either. The guy wrote another pretty nice post.
Somebody had to compensate his frustrations?!? Come on! What kind of kindergarten is this gonna be?

After decades of construction my website is finally up an running: www.kkds.de

Grammatically well written? (...) Oh and it's better you don't say that a post is well written based on the English skill of the writer, or you'd deserve a couple of yellows more than what you've gotten until now.

English skills are no criterium for rating a post. I mean we can't expect our non-english people to have a good command on that language.

But of course some users doubt at the posts of new users when they are of totally bad english (like mine ;-) ) and don't have any meaning, too.

"Sie wollen nichts anderes. Sie wollen kämpfen! Sie sind Soldaten! Fucking Wahnsinnige!" - Noel G.

And, null, a 2 lines post doesn't always deserve a yellow.

IMHO a 2 lines post doesn't deserve any rating. You can't say it is well written when the author just spent some mere seconds to write it...

"Sie wollen nichts anderes. Sie wollen kämpfen! Sie sind Soldaten! Fucking Wahnsinnige!" - Noel G.

IMHO a 2 lines post doesn't deserve any rating.

Very true, Orchid. I agree with you. Let's not rate those posts. We are free to write a joke every now and again, as Hawkeye did, but there's no need for the others to rate our posts. :)

I think we should stop arguing over such a foolish thing. It was right to discuss about it, but I guess that's enough for now.

Un bacio è un'apostrofo rosa scritto tra le parole "ti amo".

Can't we just live in a world where we all give ourselves green ratings? Obviously that won't be the case, but green ratings should be done by DEFAULT! Yellow and red, in my opinion, is a demerit and doesn't deserve to be delivered to an undeserving victim simply because the rater puts yellow if something inspiring or uplifting wasn't presented before him in the post.

Err... if everybody would rate everybody green, why should we rate at all?

Yellow is NO demerit. Read the description. It is a good written post, too, not so good like a green but worth reading, too.
A yellow vote is better than no vote because the reader cared about your post. No vote means that the user didn't read it or doesn't think it's worth to get rated.

"Sie wollen nichts anderes. Sie wollen kämpfen! Sie sind Soldaten! Fucking Wahnsinnige!" - Noel G.

Think of this from another point of view. A person who is new to Netalive signs on and posts a very well-written thread. It is very deep in thought and even hits some points that otherwise would have never been thought of had he not put attention to it. It obviously deserves green ratings, right? Well someone reading it feeling he doesn't want to read the whole post, and so he reads a first few sentences.. skips to the bottom.. "not bad" he thinks to himself decides it will be rated yellow.

He clearly didn't deserve a yellow for such a well-written post, but he got one anyway. For all the research and thought he placed into that thread, he deserved nothing but a green rating. He got a yellow instead. To him, this was a DEMERIT! It was punishment for a well-written thread, because all in all anything other than a green would have been a demerit.

So if a yellow can be a demerit in this instance, then why isn't it a demerit with other well-written posts? Just because some guy doesn't put much thought into his post doesn't mean it deserves a yellow.

This post too, might get a yellow. Why? I have no idea. It is certainly well written with much thought placed into it. Anything less than a green will be a demerit (if I may be so bold).

Also, sometimes it isn't about "rank" but about respect to each other's opinions. I could care less about having 3 white stars.

"If I die of a heart attack eating bacon, I'll be a happy man." -My father

Well someone reading it feeling he doesn't want to read the whole post, and so he reads a first few sentences.. skips to the bottom..

I don't think that we old NAOies rate a post when we didn't read it wholly. It would just not be fair and I think we all know that, don't you think so?

"Sie wollen nichts anderes. Sie wollen kämpfen! Sie sind Soldaten! Fucking Wahnsinnige!" - Noel G.

A person who is new to Netalive signs on and posts a very well-written thread. It is very deep in thought and even hits some points that otherwise would have never been thought of had he not put attention to it. It obviously deserves green ratings, right? Well someone reading it feeling he doesn't want to read the whole post, and so he reads a first few sentences.. skips to the bottom.. "not bad" he thinks to himself decides it will be rated yellow.

I absolutely agree with Orchid and even dare to go a step further. If you, Hawkeye, read and rate posts this way - how can you have this idea and assume anyone else does if you dont do it yourself? - its fine with me, your own decision. But its not at all okay to accuse anybody here of such a superficiality.

He clearly didn't deserve a yellow for such a well-written post, but he got one anyway. For all the research and thought he placed into that thread, he deserved nothing but a green rating.

And its also not at all okay, its - excuse the word - arrogant to think of your own posts as "well written" and "very deep in thought". Dont forget we are talking here about taste, not measurable properties. Whether or not I find a post outstanding is nothing that you can know or decide, never, not in a million years, no matter how much effort you put into writing your post. Tell you what: I'm very glad about that.

He got a yellow instead. To him, this was a DEMERIT! It was punishment for a well-written thread, because all in all anything other than a green would have been a demerit.

So not rating it at all is a even bigger demerit, right? So all other 10 regular users that didn't rate your post at all did offend you even more! Man, you must have a hell of bad time here at NAO.....

This post too, might get a yellow. Why? I have no idea. It is certainly well written with much thought placed into it. Anything less than a green will be a demerit (if I may be so bold).

I wont do you the favor to reward this "well written" post with a yellow one, cause the only way to show my refusals is to NOT vote at all.

Why are you just taking the rating stuff sooooooo serious? We are here to exchange thoughts, not to determine who's the best writer. I was in different kind of schools long enough to know that I dont need marks for what I write anymore, not at all in my spare time. Go and write your thesis, if you feel the need to be brilliant. I'm just interested in honest and unpolished opinions, not in composed essays.

After decades of construction my website is finally up an running: www.kkds.de

This post was edited by Martin on Sep 04, 2002.

First of all, Martin, my post was in no way intended to offend you, which it seemed to do anyway.

Second, excuse me for saying my own post was well written. Maybe I'm not the best judge, but it could have just as easily been some annonymous user. The point is exactly the same.

Go and write your thesis, if you feel the need to be brilliant. I'm just interested in honest and unpolished opinions, not in composed essays.

Can you now understand the reason why I assumed people might "skip" these well-written posts. Suddenly opinions are named "composed essays," as you worded it, that apparently don't deserve any recognition beyond a yellow rating. The whole point of yellow and red ratings are to ward off jerks from this site, not to bash some well-written post, Martin. Most every post deserves a green rating here. May I remind you that I don't agree with all the opinions, but they still deserve green posts.

If the rating system isn't something you take seriously, then you probably shouldn't rank people. A requirement of all judges in serious events like figure skating are that the judges take these events equally serious. If they were flimsy and could care less how they rated, then they might as well not even have judges. You could say this isn't a serious event, but then those that don't think figure skating is a serious event aren't asked to be judges of such competitions either.

Also I might add that not ranking at all is not good or bad. It is like having 9 grades make up a semester grade in class, and the 10th one isn't factored in. It doesn't influence the average at all.

Sorry if this seems like a "composed essay" to you Martin. I'm just speaking my opinion. Rate me red if you like. Just be consistent.

"If I die of a heart attack eating bacon, I'll be a happy man." -My father

The whole point of yellow and red ratings are to ward off jerks from this site, not to bash some well-written post, Martin. Most every post deserves a green rating here. May I remind you that I don't agree with all the opinions, but they still deserve green posts.

<sigh> You dont want to understand, right? The Yellow is NOT to keep off the idiots, the Yellow is a above average reward! Very few of the posts deserve a green rating, the yellow is the first stage of compliment I can give for a post, green is the second, very rarely reached stage. And its (read should be) not at all about the opinions. What we've seen during the last weeks is just an inflationary, undeserved use of Greens!

If the rating system isn't something you take seriously, then you probably shouldn't rank people.

If you had read the old threads to this topic you might have found out that I always called into question this whole rating and ranking stuff. Just for exactly this reason: because the writing of posts becomes a mere race for green ratings, and because rating those posts is always again the reason for arguments just like this that endanger the feeling of community. So finally we all agreed to use it ONLY to keep the lamers out and for nothing else. Its just so sad, that we have to go through this again and again.

After decades of construction my website is finally up an running: www.kkds.de

This post was deleted by request of the author.

I couldn't agree more!

Getting nervous to be a Daddy? Your wife in hospital already? You will make it, dont worry!

:-D

After decades of construction my website is finally up an running: www.kkds.de

Right, well if it isn't so important, lets start giving each other red ratings for the heck of it. We aren't going to do that because we don't want red ratings back. Therefore, for you to not want that, it would imply you care about the rating system as well. Maybe not as much, granted, but it is important to all of us that we don't get red ratings if we didn't deserve it.

Some of us don't stop there.. some of us think it is important that we don't get yellow ratings if we didn't deserve it. Is it so hard to see that jump?

A perfectionist student in school studies hard for his exams only to get a C. He asks the professor why he got such a grade, and the professor says "Oh well, I never cared much about the grading system, so I put random letters on people's grades now." This analogy is an exaggeration of course, but it isn't so far from the truth. Is it wrong for me to put extra thought into my posts because I refuse to have a 'C' grade? Just understand that what isn't so important to you might be important to someone else, and respect should be given to such people as I would give respect to Martin or Frank if you were in my shoes.

Aside from that, if there weren't a ranking system, I'd still post this way I promise. My goal isn't to get greens, but I certainly wouldn't want reds just like I wouldn't want yellows so much either.

"If I die of a heart attack eating bacon, I'll be a happy man." -My father

This post was edited by Hawkeye on Sep 05, 2002.

There we go. You are a prefectionist. A "petit ambitieux".
Do you belong to those students who get a 5.5 (1 bad, 6 best) and immediately run over the teacher because he may have missed one point and therefore you should get a 6 and nothing else.
I always hated this attitude.
Me getting a 3.5 with much luck and the other guy is almost crying and screaming because he has been marked sooo bad.
Well I can live with this guys but... you know.
You should learn to deal with the ratings. You shouldn't get upset when you get rated yellow or not at all. You can get very upset if someone rates you red. Everything else should be damn unimportant to us. Should...

"Sie wollen nichts anderes. Sie wollen kämpfen! Sie sind Soldaten! Fucking Wahnsinnige!" - Noel G.

Right, well if it isn't so important, lets start giving each other red ratings for the heck of it. We aren't going to do that because we don't want red ratings back. Therefore, for you to not want that, it would imply you care about the rating system as well. Maybe not as much, granted, but it is important to all of us that we don't get red ratings if we didn't deserve it.

Wrong! We aren't going to rate Red, because Red has a function different to the one you discribe. Its so to speak not part of the scale regular users are using. You just refuse to understand it! Why??

Some of us don't stop there.. some of us think it is important that we don't get yellow ratings if we didn't deserve it. Is it so hard to see that jump?

Yes. Since you really seem to have a problem here. How can you still speak of "deserve" in connection to your own posts? I thought we made clear that rating is a subjective question of taste that you cant predict, less than ever demand.

Just understand that what isn't so important to you might be important to someone else, and respect should be given to such people as I would give respect to Martin or Frank if you were in my shoes.

You are speaking of respect?? Have you ever thought about what it means to enter a community that exists in parts for five years and demand to change the rules just that it suits you?

After decades of construction my website is finally up an running: www.kkds.de

This post was deleted by request of the author.

This post was deleted by request of the author.

The whole point of yellow and red ratings are to ward off jerks from this site, not to bash some well-written post, Martin.

You just seem unwilling to get it.
Yellow is no penalty! Yellow rates youup!

Most every post deserves a green rating here.

Oh no, not every one. There are also small comments and stuff like that which don't deserve a green rating but rather no rating.

About the "essays": Some users here really have the time to write looong, educational, well well written posts. The others have not. It is nice to read these essays but as soon as they are too long I don't have the time to read. Throughout the day I am working hard and without Internet and in the evening I only spend an hour or so in the net when I am alone at home. At weekends I can just have a quick look at new posts, then go. And it is okay because there are more important things in life.
But I like NAO and I like some users also very much so I want to be a part of this little circle, write my opinion, discuss.
But how have the chance to mix in when I have to deal with 6 new topics, twenty new posts, all quite long, some difficult written...?
I appreciate that people here take their time to think about there posts and search for good words, add links, blah blah. But I prefer short, precise posts without big expositions and statements.

"Sie wollen nichts anderes. Sie wollen kämpfen! Sie sind Soldaten! Fucking Wahnsinnige!" - Noel G.

Being a perfectionist has never let me down. I'm sorry if you don't like that attitude, but it is just the way I am. It doesn't mean I do everything to be the best, but it just means I can't settle for less. And so you can understand how I can be upset when I put so much thought into a post and get a yellow. It wasn't that I was expecting a green, but for the effort I put into it...

Am I a loner on this one?

"If I die of a heart attack eating bacon, I'll be a happy man." -My father

If your self-esteem needs green votings, or your ego can't accept anything below the best, I think you have a serious problem.
You know, people can like you even when you're getting yellow (or no) ratings. Nobody is perfect, and always expecting to be considered perfect is bound to lead to disappointment. If you want to be a perfectionist that's perfectly okay with me, but how can you expect us to blindly support you on this against our own beliefs?
Why don't you just try to say "hey, I've got a yellow rating, that's half a green one!" instead of "f*ck, I'd really have deserved a green one for this." Everybody here respects your opinion, and you as a person, but you've gotta do us the same favour... which may mean that you've got to accept one's decision to give you a yellow rating. You want to be the best? Write posts that everybody likes! Sometimes it will work, sometimes it won't. That's how it is for pretty anybody here. But don't try to force positive ratings. It just won't work. And even if it worked, it would be nothing but self-deception.

Just my .02.

"*sigh* Some men are really hard to manipulate!" - Orchid

There's no need to snap at him like that, null. He just expressed his opinion, and I think he is right. I think that anyone at our age is able to esteem his/herself for what he thinks/says and so forth.

Just like when I was at school and I had my Italian compositions. Well, I generally got 8 (which is a very good grade, 9 is the best one), and I got used to that. One day my teacher didn't agree with what I wrote on one of my compositions, and gave me six. It was so unfair. I knew I didn't deserve that grade, and my parents agreed with me because that was a well written composition, just like my previous ones.

Well, this is the same thing for yellow ratings I think. Everyone can judge if he/she wrote a good post, no matter what the others think about it. So, in my opinion, when someone puts his heart in what he writes it is right that he expects to be given good ratings or grades or whatever he deserves.
Obviously, it is hard to realize when someone actually put his heart in his thread, but I guess that here on NAO almost everyone puts his heart in what he writes. It's tangible in most of the posts written by you all.

Un bacio è un'apostrofo rosa scritto tra le parole "ti amo".

If your self-esteem needs green votings, or your ego can't accept anything below the best, I think you have a serious problem.

I didn't say I couldn't handle them, Null. I mean geez, if I couldn't handle them, I wouldn't be posting here right now because I have had more than my fair share of yellow ratings.

I shoot for the best. You may not do that, and that isn't necessarily wrong. In an easy class, I go for an A. In a hard class, I go for an A. If I allowed myself anything less, than my grades would suffer as a result. This is how I operate. I understand that I'm going to get less than green posts, that isn't what I'm saying. I'm just saying that to me, everyone makes great posts. They all have a reaction out of me, and they all do what is defined to be a "green rating." You obviously feel different, but to me, there is no point in making the great, mediocre instead.

"If I die of a heart attack eating bacon, I'll be a happy man." -My father

I didn't say I couldn't handle them, Null.

Obviously you can't. This community has existed for quite some time now, and altho not every user liked the idea of ratings when they were introduced, everybody has got used to them. It's only you who believes to "deserve" something better.

In an easy class, I go for an A. In a hard class, I go for an A.

...and if you get a B, you get on the teachers' nerves until they change the rules so you get an A?

If you want more green ratings, write more posts which people (besides you) find "excellent". It's that easy. Go ahead.

Note to Jaz, suggestion for a new post type: "sick and tired of something".

"*sigh* Some men are really hard to manipulate!" - Orchid

Don't be upset, I don't mean to insult anybody, but I'm so sick of that "yellow is bad" crap. I know it's hard when you expect a good rating and you don't get it, but hey! you can't expect anybody to find everything you write absolutely outstanding! That's all I want to say. People have opinions of their own (which is a good thing), and you have to respect their opinions, even if they differ from yours. If everybody was obliged to vote anything green, what would the rating system be good for?

Look at it mathematically: an average post gets no rating, a good post gets a yellow one, and a very good post gets a green one.
You say that most posts here are good, and that most people put quite some effort into them. I agree with you on that.
This, fortunately high, niveau is thus an average post. Probably not for the 'net in general (you know what kind of crap is floatign around), but for this specific place, netalive.org.
So, on this site, an average post is quite good.
And an average post gets no rating.
So in order to be rated yellow or even green, your post has to be better that "quite good". "Average" doesn't mean "just bearable", at least not here. "Average" means "good". So you could also say, if you want, that a yellow point is for "very good", and a green one for "excellent".
If you always try to write "excellent" posts, that's great! Don't stop. But don't make the mistake and expect that everybody shares your opinion on this. And expect to sometimes fail to write an "excellent" post. C'est la vie!

"*sigh* Some men are really hard to manipulate!" - Orchid

So we're speaking French here, huh? Ca va bien, monsieur. Well, getting back to English... Can we try to stop arguing over this thing?

Nothing good will come from this discussion, and in the end everyone will stick to his own ideas, so I don't see the point with discussing it any longer.

Un bacio è un'apostrofo rosa scritto tra le parole "ti amo".

What really makes me sad and mad and so forth is that no one of you made an effort to understand Hawkeye's point of view. You all decided that NAO is fine this way (and I may or may not agree with you, but I don't really care), and so he was automatically wrong. There was no thing he could say or do, he was wrong.

The only thing you could do was to insult him, yelling at him because he always wants the best for himself. What's wrong with that? He was just trying to make you see his point of view, and you could have politely explained things (as null did with me), instead of saying to read NAO's instructions and so forth.

Martin, you have been really impolite with h