Reading Rating Complaints

Sep 05, 2002 19:03 # 5077

andromacha *** replies...

Re: Hmm

?% | 1

There's no need to snap at him like that, null. He just expressed his opinion, and I think he is right. I think that anyone at our age is able to esteem his/herself for what he thinks/says and so forth.

Just like when I was at school and I had my Italian compositions. Well, I generally got 8 (which is a very good grade, 9 is the best one), and I got used to that. One day my teacher didn't agree with what I wrote on one of my compositions, and gave me six. It was so unfair. I knew I didn't deserve that grade, and my parents agreed with me because that was a well written composition, just like my previous ones.

Well, this is the same thing for yellow ratings I think. Everyone can judge if he/she wrote a good post, no matter what the others think about it. So, in my opinion, when someone puts his heart in what he writes it is right that he expects to be given good ratings or grades or whatever he deserves.
Obviously, it is hard to realize when someone actually put his heart in his thread, but I guess that here on NAO almost everyone puts his heart in what he writes. It's tangible in most of the posts written by you all.

Italy no longer accepts illegal immigrants. Mr. B sink their boats!!!!!!!

Sep 05, 2002 19:11 # 5079

Hawkeye *** replies...

Re: Hmm

If your self-esteem needs green votings, or your ego can't accept anything below the best, I think you have a serious problem.

I didn't say I couldn't handle them, Null. I mean geez, if I couldn't handle them, I wouldn't be posting here right now because I have had more than my fair share of yellow ratings.

I shoot for the best. You may not do that, and that isn't necessarily wrong. In an easy class, I go for an A. In a hard class, I go for an A. If I allowed myself anything less, than my grades would suffer as a result. This is how I operate. I understand that I'm going to get less than green posts, that isn't what I'm saying. I'm just saying that to me, everyone makes great posts. They all have a reaction out of me, and they all do what is defined to be a "green rating." You obviously feel different, but to me, there is no point in making the great, mediocre instead.

If the world should blow itself up,the last audible voice would be an expert saying it can't be done

Sep 05, 2002 19:55 # 5086

null replies...

Re: Hmm

85% | 2

I didn't say I couldn't handle them, Null.

Obviously you can't. This community has existed for quite some time now, and altho not every user liked the idea of ratings when they were introduced, everybody has got used to them. It's only you who believes to "deserve" something better.

In an easy class, I go for an A. In a hard class, I go for an A.

...and if you get a B, you get on the teachers' nerves until they change the rules so you get an A?

If you want more green ratings, write more posts which people (besides you) find "excellent". It's that easy. Go ahead.

Note to Jaz, suggestion for a new post type: "sick and tired of something".

When life hands you a lemon, that's 40% of your RDA of vitamin C taken care of.

Sep 05, 2002 19:25 # 5082

null replies...

Re: Hmm

90% | 3

Don't be upset, I don't mean to insult anybody, but I'm so sick of that "yellow is bad" crap. I know it's hard when you expect a good rating and you don't get it, but hey! you can't expect anybody to find everything you write absolutely outstanding! That's all I want to say. People have opinions of their own (which is a good thing), and you have to respect their opinions, even if they differ from yours. If everybody was obliged to vote anything green, what would the rating system be good for?

Look at it mathematically: an average post gets no rating, a good post gets a yellow one, and a very good post gets a green one.
You say that most posts here are good, and that most people put quite some effort into them. I agree with you on that.
This, fortunately high, niveau is thus an average post. Probably not for the 'net in general (you know what kind of crap is floatign around), but for this specific place, netalive.org.
So, on this site, an average post is quite good.
And an average post gets no rating.
So in order to be rated yellow or even green, your post has to be better that "quite good". "Average" doesn't mean "just bearable", at least not here. "Average" means "good". So you could also say, if you want, that a yellow point is for "very good", and a green one for "excellent".
If you always try to write "excellent" posts, that's great! Don't stop. But don't make the mistake and expect that everybody shares your opinion on this. And expect to sometimes fail to write an "excellent" post. C'est la vie!

When life hands you a lemon, that's 40% of your RDA of vitamin C taken care of.

Sep 05, 2002 19:33 # 5084

andromacha *** replies...

Re: Hmm

?% | 2

So we're speaking French here, huh? Ca va bien, monsieur. Well, getting back to English... Can we try to stop arguing over this thing?

Nothing good will come from this discussion, and in the end everyone will stick to his own ideas, so I don't see the point with discussing it any longer.

Italy no longer accepts illegal immigrants. Mr. B sink their boats!!!!!!!

Sep 06, 2002 06:41 # 5101

andromacha *** takes out her flame thrower...

Congrats...

?% | 1

What really makes me sad and mad and so forth is that no one of you made an effort to understand Hawkeye's point of view. You all decided that NAO is fine this way (and I may or may not agree with you, but I don't really care), and so he was automatically wrong. There was no thing he could say or do, he was wrong.

The only thing you could do was to insult him, yelling at him because he always wants the best for himself. What's wrong with that? He was just trying to make you see his point of view, and you could have politely explained things (as null did with me), instead of saying to read NAO's instructions and so forth.

Martin, you have been really impolite with him. Basically you said that he is dumb (and you did that more than once), because he couldn't understand your point of view. You said to read NAO's guideline... yeah... and what if he wasn't satisfied by that? What if he needed more or different or clearer answers? You just accused him not to read things or not to understand things. I think that the first one who doesn't understand things here is you. No one of you made a little effort to understand where Hawkeye and I were coming from. Why? Just because we are kinda new on NAO, so our opinion doesn't matter. You've been here for more time, so you know your stuff right? You say things and expect the others to agree with you...

Well, I just want to let you know what you just did with your idiot behavior... Hawkeye decided not to post anymore here. At least for some days. I partially agree with him, and I can understand him. He was under attack wherever he turned his head. You have talked so much about respect... ah-hah nice words.. but still just words. I think you should learn what respect is. I'm talking most of all to you, Martin. You are the one who treated him the worst, and you don't even know what respect means. I suggest you to pick a vocabulary, and look up for that word. Afterwards, I suggest you to follow what the vocabulary says.

Italy no longer accepts illegal immigrants. Mr. B sink their boats!!!!!!!

Sep 06, 2002 08:18 # 5102

null throws in his two cents...

Re: Congrats... (long)

95% | 2

Sorry, but this is absolutely not true.

How many times have we tried to explain things to him? I don't know exactly, but it seems like a lot of times to me.
If you feel some people were insulting to him, well, that might be because people wanted to show how pissed off they are. And, honestly, I can understand them. Because he pissed me off as well.
Lend me your ear (or eyes) and I'll try to explain why.

He was just trying to make you see his point of view, and you could have politely explained things

We've tried, we really did! OTOH I didn't feel like he tried to understand us at all.
Example: He still considers yellow ratings a punishment. He stubbornly insists on this, altho several people have explained to him several times why this isn't so! Please try to understand that this is a very frustrating experience. It's as if he didn't even read any of our posts, as if there was no need to. This may (and probably has been) be interpreted as pure arrogance!
If he feels that yellow is a bad color, well, so be it. But this is a community with clear (albeit few) rules. One rule is, "a yellow rating is good and nothing to complain about." Another one is, "People are free to express their opinion, as long as they are doing it in a polite manner." If I'm not allowed to rate Hawkeye's posts yellow (altho in my opinion it's the appropriate thing to do) because his ego can't handle anything below green, I don't really feel that he respects my opinion! What about that? Is it our fault when our actual opinion differs from what he's expecting (=the best)? Come on, this is kindergarten stuff!

and you could have politely explained things (as null did with me)

There's a reason why I've been nice to you... I feel that when I'm talking to you you're actually listening to me and trying to understand me. I appreciate that. I wish I could tell the same things about Hawkeye.

Martin, you have been really impolite with him. Basically you said that he is dumb (and you did that more than once), because he couldn't understand your point of view. You said to read NAO's guideline... yeah... and what if he wasn't satisfied by that?

Then he could have read at least one of the many posts of people who tried to explain the situation in their own words, just for him.

He was under attack wherever he turned his head.

...whenever he mentioned that stupid rating thing again! What other posts was he ever attacked for?
The correct answer is, none. He even earned some green and yellow points (<-- note, yellow points are good), and people showed an interest in his posts, replied and sometimes even agreed with him, but even if they did not, everybody treated him with respect. Anybody claiming something else needs to prove their claim.

You have talked so much about respect... ah-hah nice words.. but still just words. I think you should learn what respect is. I'm talking most of all to you, Martin.

I absolutely support Martin on everything he's written on that topic.
I actually consider us NAOees rather nice guys. I bet you've never seen us trying to freeze out any new user. If we were so nasty, nobody would have talked to you (<--that means you and Hawkeye), and you sure as hell wouldn't have got two white stars.
I bet before this rating war you haven't seen many flamewars or insulting posts on NAO, have you?

But talking about respect... what is it that Hawkeye actually wants? I understand he's a perfectionist and reaches for the best, which is perfectly okay. Nobody is attacking him for that.
I also understand he's trying to change NAO's rating system just so he can get more green points to satisfy his A-grade hunger.
Sorry, but...
1. this is self-betraying: what positive aspect does a green vote have when people are forced to rate you green,
2. how can he demand of us to change this well-working community according to his, and only his wishes? What exactly has this to do with respect? In my eyes it's utter arrogance!

Let me make up another one of my beloved examples: Your band produces 10 songs. 1 song gets on top of the charts, the other 9 don't. Do you start insulting your fans or music company, or try to change the Top10 rules so that all of your 10 songs can be #1 at once?

NAO has some rules on ratings and rankings. These rules need to be followed not because we like to make rules, but for the system to work. If you want to be #1, well go for it - everybody has this chance - but you've gotta prove yourself first. That's how it works, and I think it's a good system.
Currently Martin is the user with the highest rank. That's because he's written many good and excellent posts (<--according to the public opinion). You could say that he's worked hard for this position.
I'm currently 2 ranks below Martin. If I happen to write some excellent posts in the near future (and he doesn't), I will eventually rank up and be the new #2 or even #1. But I've gotta work for it.

Suggestion to Hawkeye: Look up "modesty" in a dictionary. Afterwards, I suggest you to follow what the vocabulary says.
If you're done with that, check out what Pierre Janet (the French psychologist) means by "manie de l'amour". Try to apply it to you, be surprised(?) that it fits, and start working on it. You could always be a valuable (and welcome) member of this community if you just could deal with below-the-best ratings! Currently you're destroying this chance only because you can't handle to be #2!
I understand that some people are tempted to rate him red (instead of green) because they're so sick of his stubbornness, and of what might be interpreted as arrogance. Is this worth it to him? Does he even intend to ever take part in another NAO discussion again?

If you, Hawkeye, want to be #1, go for it. Nobody has a problem with that. Write good posts. People will rate your posts green (which ranks you up), yellow (which ranks you up a bit less, but still ranks you up) or not at all (which still ranks you up a little bit, because every not-red-rated post gets you a few points). How high you will eventually rank depends solely on how much people like what you write. It's the same thing for all of us. Just accept that the public opinion may differ from what you expect, which seems to me like a very easy and reasonable rule.

Personal note to andromacha: It's no fun for me to write this post, especially as I like you very much, and at least partially understand how you must feel about this. But I'm just telling the truth. I honestly believe that Hawkeye's only chance here is to let this topic rest and accept things as they are. Please try to explain this to him. I don't know if he'd listen to me, or anybody else besides you.

When life hands you a lemon, that's 40% of your RDA of vitamin C taken care of.

This post was edited by null on Sep 06, 2002.

Sep 06, 2002 15:51 # 5121

Orchid *** replies...

Re: Congrats... (long)

There are people listening to you besides Andromacha

"Sie wollen nichts anderes. Sie wollen kämpfen! Sie sind Soldaten! Fucking Wahnsinnige!" - Noel G.

Sep 06, 2002 16:36 # 5127

Martin *** replies...

Re: Congrats... (long)

There are people listening to you besides Andromacha

Come on, Orchid, please dont make it a personal problem between you and null in addition, no need to be jelous! The situation is hard enough for everyone since I feel its the first real NAO crisis. Lets all calm down and dont open up new battlefields.

After decades of construction my website is finally up an running: www.kkds.de

Sep 07, 2002 13:13 # 5147

null replies...

Re: Congrats... (long)

Actually I meant to say: "I don't know if he'd listen to me, or to anybody else besides you." I know that anybody eagerly absorbs anything I write ;-)

When life hands you a lemon, that's 40% of your RDA of vitamin C taken care of.


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