Reading What Sucks

What are we doing spending billions of dollars trying to keep people's private lives in order? And I'm talking about legal-aged, consenting adults here. Not kids. We obviously have to take special precautions to protect kids. But what is this Orwellian hang-up of ours of sticking our nose into other grown-ups' affairs? What concern is it of ours if some mindless stoner wants to spend his life hooked up to a Turkish skullbong?

Now I'm not pro drug. They obviously cause a lot of damage. But I am pro-logic, and you're never going to stop the human need for release through altered consciousness. The government could take away all the drugs in the world and people would spin around on their lawn until they fell down and saw God.

It seems to really enrage the vast cheese-dog and beer-quaffing nation out there when someone decides to waste his own life chasing down chemical euphoria. And I'm not sure why. Our displeasure with someone hell-bent on self ruination through drug use seems really disproportionate to its direct impact on us. And as a matter of fact, we amplify that impact when we attempt to enforce unenforceable laws. It not only costs us billions but puts us in harm's way as addicts are driven to crime as a means to an end.

Why do we chase druggies down like villagers after Borris Karloff? Let them legally have what they already have and defuse the bomb.

The war on drugs is more often than not fruitless and patently hypocritical. Be honest with yourselves, now, what drugs are the most dangerous to most people? It's a no-brainer, cigarettes and alcohol.

Those are the statistical champions by hundreds and thousands of deaths. And wouldn't you rather shoot a game of pool with a guy smoking a joint than a guy drinking whiskey and beer? Someone smoking a joint doesn't all of a sudden rear back and stab his partner in the eye socket with the cue stick, okay. He's too busy laughing at the balls.

And as far as harder drugs go, if somebody wants to shoot up and die right in front of you, more power to him, you know it's his call. The herd has always had a way of thinning itself out!

We aren't stupid people, no more than anyone else in the world. So why are we obsessing on habits that harm no one but the habitual, while we let real problems slip even further out of reach?

Hey lockedNloaded, wow man you hit the nail on the head with that one, its so true. You know what pisses me off, that people like you or that share your views are not MPs or Politicians,I don't know but the people at the top are the people at the top.
And they like it that way, probably we would quite like to be at the top too ?:(
To stay at the top they need to keep us peasants going to maintain their own power.
Money=power=money=power.
They probably put a lot of effort into maintaining the present human situation, so as to maintain their own superior position.
If people have too much time to think how things could be better, they might do something about it, this is kind of borne out by the fact that most activists and protesters are unemployed and have time to think. At the end of the day weed like a lot of drugs are natural and even existed on this planet before us humans did, so who is some posh nose MP sitting in an office to say we cant smoke that drug just because thats hes opinion. I think it should be an individual decision.

i dont have a dream "I HAVE A SCHEME"

The government is present to maintain order in society. Drug abusers are drains on society. Do you think hard working people should have their tax money go towards welfare, so certain people can spend their life brain-fried?

I support the legalization of marijuana, but for entirely different reasons...

1. First of all, it's obvious the laws aren't stopping people from doing it.

2. Before I became legal drinking age, it was much MUCH easier for me to get pot than alcohol. Legalizing it would keep it away from children.

3. When you buy shit on the streets you have no idea what's in it. It could be laced with rat poison for all you know. If it were legal, you could buy it in stores and it could be guarenteed to be clean.

4. Having marijuana available in stores would put dealers out of business.

5. Not to mention the millions in tax dollars that could be put towards, say, education or health care.

I do not advocate the legalization of addictive drugs.

Cigarettes and alcohol are "statistical champions" because they are legal. They should give life sentences for those who kill driving drunk and permanently revoke the licenses of those caught driving drunk.

They should give life sentences for those who kill driving drunk

definitly. same opinion.

and permanently revoke the licenses of those caught driving drunk.

wait a minute: what about those who just CANNOT drive without being drunk? (yep, there IS a difference!)

yes, looks kind of idiotic, but a third of the humankind suffers of something called reverted blood circulation, which makes several stuff really really UN-doable, eg. not shuddering while NOT having a bit alcohol in your blood (or being on any other drug).

and YES, i DO know such kind of people.

and there goes all the shit: how to tell if somebody's going to be VERY calm and WELL concentrated on what he's doing all the way, eg. driving, if he drinks some alcohol or anything else?

i think in our bureaucratic world he/she hadnt any chance of EVER being allowed to drive, if he/she tried to fight that by law n' order.

cu, w0lf.

Metal has no laws. Metal is the law.

This post was edited by oxygenius on Apr 21, 2003.

a third of the humankind suffers of something called reverted blood circulation, which makes several stuff really really UN-doable, eg. not shuddering while NOT having a bit alcohol in your blood

Google didn't spit out any matches for reverted or reversed blood circulation, so what amount of alcohol are we talking about here? If someone affected from that syndom needs to empty two glasses of Scotch before they are able to drive, no, they shouldn't be allowed to do that.

'Yeah, That's what Jesus would do. Jesus would bomb Afghanistan. Yeah.' - snowlion

Jaz: did you ever try using a library? or asking 'things' that are alive?

google wont find you this. at least NOT, if you try searching for this 'reverted blood circulation' ((Blut)Kreislauf). its not too often mentioned - it's the reason why Ritalin and several other stuff are WORKING with cases of AD(H)S aka HKS aka MCD.
it's an inofficial description normally used only by both medicine personal and therapists. you wont hear this one seldom outside this 'circle'. ;)

but 'having' HKS/ADHS is NOT always the same as not being able to drive/concentrate WITHOUT alcohol/some similar drug.

we had this discussion somewhat before - dont know the thread anymore, but i'm sure you'll be able to find it.

anyway, i'm 'slightly' affected by the side-effects of the so-called 'reverted blood circulation', which eg. let you become very calm and sleepy by using some types of speed, or also dozing off by drinking a normal dose of coffee (this is the reason why i dont drink normal, but only very strong coffee, which others would either spit out or just run up the walls).

this goes further coming to local anaesthesia my dentist gives me so i dont feel the pain if he drills around my teeth - he always gives me not twice, but three times of the normal dose - else it's effect would wear off too fast. :-/

coming back to alcohol: YES, if i drink a bit more of that toxic stuff, sometimes i all in a sudden STOP shuddering - which i nearly ALWAYS do (if i wasnt soooo sleeepy now, i'd do it, too. but i nearly did doze off some minutes before, nearly doing the famous "it's called a 'head crash'", so... ). :)

cu, w0lf.

Metal has no laws. Metal is the law.

This post was edited by oxygenius on Apr 22, 2003.

Jaz: did you ever try using a library?

I figured Google would give me some information about a syndrome that's affecting two billion people. Also no libraries open on Easter Monday.

or asking 'things' that are alive?

I asked you, didn't I?

'Yeah, That's what Jesus would do. Jesus would bomb Afghanistan. Yeah.' - snowlion

I asked you, didn't I?

see? and i am alive. at least, sometimes :D

(there's something fouling laying around on the lawn ... *lol*)

no, sometimes, especially for searching such documents, i'd suggest trying either MetaGer (good choice) or DogPile (better choice) ;)

cu, w0lf.

Metal has no laws. Metal is the law.

Where are these 2,109,891,667 people hiding? Forgive me for being skeptical, but if someone can't keep from shaking without having a drink, they need to be in a hospital.

they need to be in a hospital.

in your ... 'humble' ... opinion.

:->

i knew i should have let you set on 'ignore'.

and that is EXACTLY what the one that 'need(s) to be in a hospital' is going to do NOW. at least, i dont need drugs to do THAT.

cu, w0lf.

Metal has no laws. Metal is the law.

My dad was hospitalized because of his drinking problem and he hasn't had a single drink since he got out.

He doesn't need 12 beers a night anymore. And no one should need any beer just to function normally. If you find yourself in this situation, you should seek help before you develop serious problems as well.

But go ahead and leave me on ignore, I think I'd appriciate it.

There are two assumptions in your argument that need to be questioned.

1. That the government's war on drugs helps maintain order in society

2. Number one is is based on the assumption that a lot more people will become drug addicts if it is made legal.

I can assure you, as a former drug user, that the legality of it doesn't make much of a difference. The vast majority of people will not do drugs because of the negative effects it has on their lives.

Do you think hard working people should have their tax money go towards welfare, so certain people can spend their life brain-fried?

Do you think hard working people should have their tax money go towards welfare, so certain people can spend their life drunk?
Do you think hard working people should have their tax money go towards medicare, so certain people can smoke their whole lives and then need medical attention they can't afford?

I'm really uneasy about the government regulating behavior in order to make society more productive. It goes against the idea's of freedom.

I'm really uneasy about the government regulating behavior in order to make society more productive. It goes against the idea's of freedom.

Well, like it or not, the government is here and it does regulate behavior. The government is here to restrict our freedoms (amongst other things). It is a touchy subject, because who decides where to draw the line? But to a certain extent, it is a good thing.

If heroin suddenly became legal, it would become a HUGE industry. Heroin vending machines on every corner. People would say to themselves, "heroin is legal? well, I guess it can't hurt to try it once". Then bam, you've got an entire country addicted and many more would die from heroin than would from cigarettes.

Number one is is based on the assumption that a lot more people will become drug addicts if it is made legal.

I know so many alcoholics that drink themselves stupid on a regular basis, but would never touch a joint. "Nah, I don't need that shit, *hic*, c'mon, I'll drive you home". Is alcohol really any worse than pot? Why do you think these people choose alcohol over all other forms of intoxicants readily available?

Do you think hard working people should have their tax money go towards welfare, so certain people can spend their life drunk?
Do you think hard working people should have their tax money go towards medicare, so certain people can smoke their whole lives and then need medical attention they can't afford?

No. Why? Do you? The problem with cigarettes is that there are already so many people who are addicted. If cigarettes were suddenly outlawed, people would go insane. The tobacco industry is definitely evil.

How many people would support the illegalization of alcohol or cigarettes do you think? Not many. In a way, society has brought it upon itself to have to pay for medical attention and what not.

Here in Toronto, they are getting pretty close to legalizing marijuana. I'm fine with that, but what bothers me is that I read the legal age would be 16. 16! You know every 16 year old who can't buy cigarettes or beer, but wants to look cool would have a joint in their face. If they legalize pot, it should be at least the same age as drinking (19 here).

I'm really uneasy about the government regulating behavior in order to make society more productive. It goes against the idea's of freedom.

the government like to force us into working all day and give us wonderful entertainment all night like Eastenders (ignoring the real problems and real situations in the world), we are the ants busily running about unthinkingly serving the queen ants.
We are all so busy just making ends meet, putting food on our tables and paying our bills that we haven't got the time to change things.
Society trains us to want things ( property), society tricks us into believing we need the new car, a new TV, and all sorts of shit, that cons us into believing we are happy.
And once we own things we trap ourselves because we need to protect them and use them.
Think how easy it would be to move to a better place if we didn't have any property.
Governments don't want their work force to just move on mass
Notice how the really powerful governments surround themselves with a population that believes itself to be the most well off. Like Americans who are kept happy by being given a better life than most populations, so they don't move away or overthrow their own government. If Americans were kept downtrodden and poor they would revolt, but the American government doesn't really care about people because it has proven time and time again it is perfectly prepared to abuse and use the poor downtrodden peoples of the world. They will sell poisonous gas to the next Saddam when they know full well that he is using it on his own people - human life is worthlessly cheap to the people with power. Perhaps we are really just another form of pesky insect.
I think the most worrying thought is that there are just too many people on the planet and one day they will have to address this problem.
If we all had time to change the world we would probably rise up and overthrow our oppressors with a large dose of anarchy. They can only be overthrown if all the people turn against them.
That may be why they maintain the different religions, cultures, countries, etc. otherwise globally we could be very strong by uniting and boycotting anything we didn't agree with.

Anyway look at me rambling on, what do I know about it? Nothing because I have no power, I honestly think that there is nothing we can do about it now - it's too late.
The best we can do is be like them on a smaller scale and just look after ourselves the best we can in the situation that we have found ourselves in, and try to have some fun along the way.
Sometimes I think the people who ignore the problems of others and the world are the happiest.
Weird innit?

Is alcohol really any worse than pot?

Definatly, Alcohol is pushed around all day on T.V advertisements, everywhere you go, its the number two killer in the world, ciggerettes legal and alcohol even though they kill more people than all other illegal drugs combined, times one thousand... Marijuana, a drug that kills, umm noone, lemme put that in a time frame, Ever.
Marijuana is against the law, u tell me why. If your at a party and someones really violant and obnoxious, are they stoned or are they drunk. Talking about drugs in general, like i said earlier its noone elses business but your own, if i decide to get off my head i aint hurting noone or taking your money. I drink rarely and take ecstasy only when im at raves, which is normally every month or couple of months and i really enjoy it, im addicted to ciggeretes and tea, but thats about it. Ive tried cocaine which i enjoyed and got for free, ive tried speed, ive tried crack twice and i enjoyed that... i think society paints a picture of dirty druggies shooting up in a dingy old flat somewhere when the reality is thats just a minor few. The differance is if you have a good job and a lot of money, you can afford to get some drugs, whichever it may be, retire to your home with your friends and have fun, then return to your job on monday. But the homeless people or unemployed cannot and maybe have to resort to crime, and thats the ones we see. We dont see the rich people taking drugs. So its a very one sided view.

i dont have a dream "I HAVE A SCHEME"

Is alcohol really any worse than pot?

Oops, I had meant that the other way around. "Is pot really any worse than alcohol?". Sorry.

Oops, I had meant that the other way around.

Haha, you sure you wasnt stoned mace,
P.S wheres LockedNloaded gone on this one

i dont have a dream "I HAVE A SCHEME"

P.S wheres LockedNloaded gone on this

Looks like he hasn't been around for months. =/

If heroin suddenly became legal, it would become a HUGE industry. Heroin vending machines on every corner. People would say to themselves, "heroin is legal? well, I guess it can't hurt to try it once". Then bam, you've got an entire country addicted and many more would die from heroin than would from cigarettes.

I simply don't believe that. Would you try heroin? I know I wouldn't and I think most people are the same as me on this one. If what you say is true then there isn't much hope for society anyway. I give people a little more credit than that.

I know so many alcoholics that drink themselves stupid on a regular basis, but would never touch a joint.Why do you think these people choose alcohol over all other forms of intoxicants readily available?

Because it's legal. But, if it were illegal would they be hardworking straight edge people. I highly doubt it. These types of people will always find some type of stimulant to use. Using alcohol over pot is probably an issue of convience.

You also seem to imply that alcohol and cigarettes should be illegal. I once argued this in high school. It didn't go over too well. I feel that we should atleast be consistent. If drugs are illegal then alcohol and cigarettes should be too. But I don't think any of them should be illegal. I know far more adults that drink responsibly than those that don't. Kids, 16-23, are an exception. Most kids drink to get drunk and party, but most of them will not turn out to be alcoholics.

Read my reply to jaz for the rest of my thoughts on this.

P.S.- Maybe we need to raise the age limit, but I'd be against putting people in jail for any type of drug use (alcohol or other).

I simply don't believe that. Would you try heroin? I know I wouldn't and I think most people are the same as me on this one. If what you say is true then there isn't much hope for society anyway. I give people a little more credit than that.

I wouldn't try heroin, but I also would never smoke cigarettes. How many people do you know that smoke? You're right. I don't give people much credit at all.

Using alcohol over pot is probably an issue of convience.

I know a lot of under age people who drink anyways, but wouldn't smoke pot, even though it would be easier for them to get.

You also seem to imply that alcohol and cigarettes should be illegal.

Yeah, I was implying it without saying it outright because it would be damn near impossible to illegalize alcohol and cigarettes now.

We are human, and I don't think that we'll ever be able to rid ourselves of many of our vices, but that doesn't mean we should give up. If we just said "screw it" and gave into our vices, the world would become a mess.

I'm really uneasy about the government regulating behavior in order to make society more productive. It goes against the idea's of freedom.

In a world of limited resources it is not possible to provide everyone with full freedom (in the context of "free" welfare and medicare). "Fuck up your body as you like, we're going to fix you no matter what" is a statement we cannot afford.

Please explain why moving the line marking where personal responsibility ends and social responsibility begins is against the idea of freedom? We would exchange the freedom of not having to fear the cost of treating tar-filled lungs for the freedom of not having to fear the cost of treating some other sort of disease or hardship that could not be addressed appropriately before.

'Yeah, That's what Jesus would do. Jesus would bomb Afghanistan. Yeah.' - snowlion

"Please explain why moving the line marking where personal responsibility ends and social responsibility begins is against the idea of freedom?"

Clearly we aren't dealing with absolutes. I begin to get uneasy when we start regulating things that don't directly affect others in a negative way. Drugs are bad, but I'd bet society is hurt more by heart disease than drug use. It kills more people and costs more money in the medical arena. Should the government regulate diet? Should we be put in jail if we posses more than x pounds of beef at one time? This is the same logic that was applied to drug use and crosses of my line of acceptability.

P.S.- We don't have free medical/medicare although tax dollars do go toward those things.