Reading null's journal

Sure, we could ignore Iraq and hope Saddam doesn't have nukes. Why don't we do this? Maybe not because the evidence points to it, but because if we did anything otherwise, the consequences would be unthinkable

Well, then I would like to know why Korea is being ignored. It is proved that they have nuclear weapons, they have the atom bomb. And it is also true that Korea has never been a "friend" of the United States. Then why ignoring Korea and not ignoring Iraq?
With this, I don't mean to offend anyone in here. I just want to understand WHY Iraq yes and Korea no. Maybe European newspapers are biased, and maybe American newspapers are biased. I just would like to hear what they are telling you about the whole situation.

How do they justify attacking Saddam and not attacking Korea? I mean, they still have to prove that Saddam has mass-destruction weapons, but it's already been proved that Korea has them for sure.
Of course, if it depended on most of the people living in Europe or, yes, in the USA as well, I am sure that we wouldn't get to any war anytime soon. But if we do, then I don't see the point in striking someone who may or may not have nuclear mass-destruction weapons, and at the same time not striking someone who has that kind of weapons for sure.

Just my two cents. Sorry if I have been a little repetitive in writing down my point. I just realized that :P

Italy no longer accepts illegal immigrants. Mr. B sink their boats!!!!!!!

This post was edited by andromacha on Jan 25, 2003.

Iraq has the oil.. the petrol. Korea doesn't.

-Annida

Well I already mentioned Northkorea in one of my posts before, but nobody seemed to be interested besides you.

I think the reason why the US don't care about Northkorea is that it is a poor country. There's nothing to get, so it's not intersting for the US policy.

"Sie wollen nichts anderes. Sie wollen kämpfen! Sie sind Soldaten! Fucking Wahnsinnige!" - Noel G.

Well... I could be mean and allege that these are Shrub's thoughts:

Iraq has oil and no nukes --> piece of cake to bomb and there's some BIG $$$ in for my friends at Big Oil.
Korea has no oil but nukes (and they probably will use them) --> if we attack them and they kick our ass, my voters will be really mad at me!

As a metter of fact, I don't know why. I wouldn't claim that the above is the truth. All I can say is that I wouldn't be terribly surprised.

When life hands you a lemon, that's 40% of your RDA of vitamin C taken care of.

This post was edited by null on Jan 25, 2003.

Why do I even bother posting my feelings on the topic? My "senes of reality" is obviously "blurred" beyond all help, right? I must be CRAZY to think what I think.

You guys have to hand it to me that Saddam Hussein having nukes is bad. Yes?! *nods head so that everybody can understand* I'm making a very valid point here structured with premises and conclusions, and you're completely ignoring it. Tell me that Saddam Hussein having nukes is not a bad thing, and I will leave you alone. Tell me that I wasn't getting somewhere instead of saying "how fiece your perception of reality is blurred!" When I finally stop posting on this thread (which I will probably do very shortly), you guys can rejoice and celebrate in a mass American flag burning festival. Go to it, I'm the only one here that seems to give any of you credit for making good points.

North Korea is a topic for another day, so lets focus on the issue here. If you want to talk about Korea, I recommend you go to the North Korea thread and speak your heart out about how horrible US is.

The only feedback I'm getting from my responses are insults about how horrible my country is. What a great argument! Everybody seems to think so based on Martin's wonderful ratings. If you guys don't see how hypocritical your arguments are for "nuking" washington and then insulting US for wanting to stop this chaos, then God help you.

If the world should blow itself up,the last audible voice would be an expert saying it can't be done

Dude, are you deliberately being ignorant?

We're doing our best to come up with facts (yes, facts) to explain why this war is wrong. You obviously don't read (or understand) what we're writing about, because you keep talking about completely different stuff!

You guys have to hand it to me that Saddam Hussein having nukes is bad.

Boy, did you ever listen to me? There is no evidence, i repeat, no evidence at all that Saddam has nukes! That's what we're talking about all the time!

Tell me that I wasn't getting somewhere instead of saying "how fiece your perception of reality is blurred!"

I've done my best to give an objective, un-personal reply. Sorry if that wasn't obvious enough to those who don't care to try and understand it.

When I finally stop posting on this thread (which I will probably do very shortly), you guys can rejoice and celebrate in a mass American flag burning festival.

Sure, as if we're doing all this just because we don't like you American guys. Tell me where we're anti-American in general and not just bashing the incompetent government. Read my first post again, there it says that this is not against the American people. But that's probably just another hypocritical lie of mine, or what do you think?

North Korea is a topic for another day, so lets focus on the issue here.

No, really: what reasons for attacking Iraq but not Korea can you think of? I'd like to hear them. Really.

If you guys don't see how hypocritical your arguments are for "nuking" washington and then insulting US for wanting to stop this chaos, then God help you.

1. No sidetracking intended, yes?
2. It was me who made that statement, not "us guys". To set this clear (if it wasn't), I wouldn't nuke Washington just for the sake of it. But I would blow up your government any time if I could save the lives of 10,000's of potential innocent war victims that way.
3. What chaos are you exactly talking about? Is it the same kind of chaos which caused the USA to kill the democratically elected president of Chile (Allende), bringing a certain General Pinochet to power by means of military forces (and against the will of the Chilenian people), and accepting that tens of thousands of innocent people were tortured by the Pinochet regime - just because Allende was a goddamn communist? Are you talking about a Vietnam type chaos? Or just how peaceful (yet chaotic) anti-war demonstrations in the 70's were ended by armed forces, while some government guys kept babbling about the country's great values such as the right to free speech?
Face it buddy, your government, your country is far from being perfect, no matter what your history teacher may tell you. Every country has some skeleton in the closet (I've already admitted that mine does as well), and assuming that your government has always been infallible is ignorant beyond words.

Now if you choose reply, please take my words and open questions into consideration. Maybe I'm wrong and you have just the argument to prove that, but you're not gonna win anything by sulking or personally attacking us instead of replying to our arguments.

When life hands you a lemon, that's 40% of your RDA of vitamin C taken care of.

Okay, okay okay... I think that the situation is getting out of control again.
Now rate me down to death as you like, but I think that we should possibly stop discussing about such thing in here.
I guess it is useless, because nothing will come out of it.

I think that Hawkeye was just expressing his ideas, he was speaking his mind, as he has the right to do. He wasn't attacking or insulting anyone in here.
I am sorry to say, null, because you are a friend to me, that you were being deliberately offensive towards him.
This is the way I read it anyway.

We all have different ideas in here, but it's not the case to bark at each other for that. I think you should just tone it down a little bit, as you were a little exaggerated in your post.
There's no need to refer to him like that, and no, there's no need you say that he's being ignorant. He is not ignorant! He has different ideas from yours or mine or whatever. He has his own ideas, and you have to respect them.

I don't see why as soon as hearts get a little more involved and a little more on fire than usual we have to start yelling at each other like this.
Nao is made to express your own feelings, and share your opinions with the others. At the same time though, you shouldn't feel insulted because of what you think. I think that Hawkeye has been writing his own ideas and feelings in a polite way, and I expect all the others to do the same.

Now, I hope that most of you agree with me on that. With that said, I haven't written all this because I want null's apologies... no no no no! I wrote this only because I care about all the people out here on Nao, and I hate everytime such facts happen. We've always been a sort of big family where everyone has always felt free to express their ideas without the thought "oh gosh, if they don't agree they will immediately yell at me, and insult me".

I also want to point out that I didn't do this only because Hawkeye's involved. He knows how to defend himself on his own, and doesn't need me to defend him (even if I hope he appreciates this all the same). I would have done this with anyone else. I just care about the peace and harmony of the whole community.
Can we please try to tone it down?

Thanks,
Elena.

Italy no longer accepts illegal immigrants. Mr. B sink their boats!!!!!!!

andromacha my friend,

Please see my reply to Hawkeye for an explanation why I've felt insulted by his post(s).

He is not ignorant! He has different ideas from yours or mine or whatever. He has his own ideas, and you have to respect them.

Well nobody (I hope) in here will flame somebody for just expressing their opinion, as long as it's not insulting or something.
If you post your opinions on a public board however, you'll have to accept that people may (and often will) disagree. You can't expect anybody to say "ah, yes, I see your point, you're right." That's not how it works!
There's a difference between accepting that other people have different opinions, and accepting the opinion as such. Am I to feel offended when I state something, and somebody else says "sorry buddy, it doesn't make any sense to me"? Well I can try to convince him of my opinion, but if he's not accepting it and in turn tries to convince me of his opinion, I'll have to accept that! That's nothing to do with getting personal or something.

When life hands you a lemon, that's 40% of your RDA of vitamin C taken care of.

I wasn't complaining about your ideas and your opinions, which are different from Hawkeye's. It is the way you express them that should be toned down.

I think that you are free to explain your ideas just as much as he is free to do that. Still, there are different ways to tell people that you think that their opinion is wrong, and yours could be right.

It is not necessary to use

Dude, are you deliberately being ignorant?

or

Boy, did you ever listen to me?

I don't think you are allowed to snap at the others like that. First of all call your own brother "dude" or your father or whatever you want, but now Hawkeye. He didn't do anything to deserve to be called that. And "boy"... oh well here we should read what follows:
"hey, look I am older than you, therefore I know how things go in this world much better than you, and you should just shut up and listen to the master lecturing out!"

Really, I didn't expect this from you. I am really disappointed, and I hope you will get back to your senses, because that's not the null I've known for almost a year.

Italy no longer accepts illegal immigrants. Mr. B sink their boats!!!!!!!

oh well here we should read what follows:
"hey, look I am older than you, therefore I know how things go in this world much better than you, and you should just shut up and listen to the master lecturing out!"

Why, thanks for this brilliant and unbiased analysis. That's exactly what I've been trying to say.
NOT!

Of course, if you read all my posts this way, I can perfectly understand why you're feeling offended by them. But please, stick to what I'm actually writing, and not what one might interprete my words as if they were in a really nasty mood. Especially you should know me well enough to know that this is not my style.

Dude, are you deliberately being ignorant?

I wrote this after I came up with some points twice and he didn't even bother to mention them in his reply.

Boy, did you ever listen to me?

I wrote this after Hawkeye repeatedly insisted that Saddam having nukes would be bad, which is pretty obvious and never was the question. OTOH he completely 'forgot' to add to the actual discussion, namely if Saddam even does have nukes and if a war without proof for that would be justified!

When life hands you a lemon, that's 40% of your RDA of vitamin C taken care of.

This post was edited by null on Jan 26, 2003.