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Mar 26, 2003 10:00 # 9700
Mar 26, 2003 14:05 # 9710
Inflammatory last line.....eh wat??
Don't worry Frank, we have enough history with our various Presidents to weather this storm.
Consider the outpouring of statewide support to Abraham Lincoln on the Emancipation Act.
I think your view is mostly a product of your training. And I'm not putting that down. It is a useful tool.
I'm a product of my training....if you get caught up in the sturm and drang....you become part of the problem.
quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
Mar 27, 2003 02:28 # 9726
A significant part of basic training is the phsycological aspect. AKA, brainwashing. This does not mean that you or any other soldier are brainwashed, but an attempt was made.
"I've formed my own opinions about my leaders."
Everyone believes that they've formed their own opinion. However, their opinion is dependent upon the information they have and if that information can be controlled their opinion can be controlled.
"I don't want you to think that Army life is some kind of way for the US Gov't to produce a bunch of brainwashed individuals who will die for any cause."
That is the idea.
"We operate on the premise that our Soldiers are volunteers wanting to be here and wanting to protect the American public."
That's bullshit. If a soldier gets orders to go to iraqi can he/she say that they disagree with the cause and not go without facing any repercussions? Can a soldier enlist, go through traing, get to their unit and then decide that the Army isn't what they thought it was and go home? The Army is all about coercion. That's why they prey on impressionable youth.
Mar 27, 2003 07:02 # 9732
Thanks for helping me make the point that the military isn't a voluntary affair :)
"There are infinite ways to get out of the military."
not honorably. And all the "well meaning" sergeants tell you that you will never be anything but a burger flipper if you don't have an honorable discharge.
"The whole idea is you volunteer because you want to be there. If you change your mind after you're in then thats your fault."
Most people volunteer when they are kids and don't really understand what they are getting into. But lets make a different point. Let's say I join the army because I want to defend my country. Then while I'm in some idiot gets elected president and tries to turn america into the roman empire. I, as a voluntary soldier, should be able to say "this isn't what I joined for" and be able to leave with an honorable discharge. War should be completely voluntary. You know a war is just when people truly volunteer to give their lives for a cause. Tricking some lower class high schooler into joining the army for college money and then forcing him to invade another country to control oil isn't my idea of a voluntary system. Don't act like all the people in the military want to be there for ultra patriotic reasons. I'd say that half of the E1's to E4's can't wait to get out. For those of you that don't speak military an E1 is the lowest level private and an E4 is the rank right below SGT.
Your repeated discussion of absolute freedom has nothing to do with the points I made in my last post.